Opening a Bar
 

I'm not sure really how to approach this subject so I wanted to run a couple ideas out and then see if people could brainstorm possible problems (or offer solutions) and then I'd go through and try to think out something for each possible problem.

1) Bars are basically event promotion. Getting people through the door is really the only thing that matters. Everything else is kinda meh. This is the only thing I don't really need derided since the "Bars are so hard to open" blah blah blah is really std and boring. Opening any business is hard and it'll likely fail. Whatev.
2) I'd be a semi-blind partner. I'd handle most of the numbers work, but would do almost nothing with the actual bar.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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Getting people through the door is really the only thing that matters. Everything else is kinda meh.

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everything else isn't meh. getting them in the first time isn't hard. getting them to come back is the tricky part. so you gotta make it good. everyone always checks out the new bar in the city. does it last? depends how good it is inside.

i was talking to this bartender a bar, who i knew from another bar he used to work at. he was saying the other bar essentially tanked when they got a new manager and the manager had no customer relation skills. that's why he left. essentially the new manager was a bookworm accountant type. he ran everything by the book. he stopped allowing bartenders to give out comp drinks, and free cover and such. loyal customers stopped coming. all it takes is a bartender to give you a free shot of tequila or something halfway through the night because you're a loyal customer, and it reinstills in your mind why you love that place and keep going back there. it's "your" bar. but when that stops, it just becomes like any other bar. you're just another dude there.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

housenuts,

Yeah, I understand that. Novelty will get people there for a short time. I'm more concerned with the techinical aspects and preventing possible problems before they arise. Someone else worries about getting people in the door.

I like what you're saying, it does open up the way for cheating etc. This will likely be a cheapy college style bar with drink special nights etc etc. Though I have heard that having the "face of the bar" being someone who is plugged in with the social scene is very important. Clearly myself as a 2p2 uber-nerd will not be this person. I'm not disliked and I'm sure a pseudo position of power would land me more fake friends than I need, but my far sketchier partner handles that side.

Questions for anyone to mull over:

1) Bouncers?
2) Employees dealing drugs or using in bar?
3) Bribes?

We are considering a structure where we have a clear person in charge. A "Head" Bartender who would be there every night and receive higher pay as well. Thoughts on this idea?

Re: Opening a Bar
 

My uncle owns a bar and in effect knows many other people that own bars. I grew up around that type of business (Ithaca, NY) so I'll try to list some aspects that I think are important...

1) Location and Demographic: I'm sure you've already thought about all of this. Obviously college towns are great but often way too many open in a small area and basically eat themselves. In Ithaca new bars open every year with a lifespan of 1-4 years usually. I'd say the ones that survive are the ones who a)are located far enough from other bars but still close enough to get to by foot and b)establish themselves quickly as a fun place. Don't even bother opening a bar if your target area is already over-saturated. Every new owner always thinks they can pull business away from others with their sweet idea but it rarely happens. The goal is to get a core group of returning customers and they will bring new people who become part of the core, etc etc. If you never establish repeat business you will fail.

Stock product based on your consumers. If you're catering to mainly college kids you don't need to stock much JW Blue and if you're pulling mainly professionals you won't need alot of Natural Ice.

2)Being an Owner: Very important. So many bars fail because the owner creates the perfect place for HIMSELF to party. Falling asleep at the bar every night fully cocked is a great way for your employees to rob you blind and ruin the chances of you living a long, healthy life. I applaud your decision to stay behind the scenes. Owning AND running a bar is a life-draining experience.

3)Pool-tables, music, arcade machines, etc: Pool-tables, pinballs, and especially whatever music device you choose will all make bank. Arcade cabs for the most part will not, unless you can magically get a new game rotated in twice a year. Most bars bring in an amusement company to stock their place and split the profits 50/50, 60/40, or lower if you make nothing. My advice, if you have some excess capital, would be to purchase all your own equipment. It will pay itself off reasonably quickly and after you've sufficiently profited -- home-owners buy second hand pool tables like they're going out of style. Remember if you do choose to buy all of your own equipment you are responsible for the upkeep (pool tables will jam monthly at least).

4)Food: Some bars do well just selling terrible food way overpriced. Some bars use their food services to bring customers in. I've seen $1 burgers and $.10 wings do exceptionally well. You sell the food at near loss and make the $$ from the alcohol sales. Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure if you're doing live music or other forms of entertainment but make no mistake -- all of your profit is from alcohol sales. Everything else is just a lure. If you're doing exceptionally well and can get away with charging a cover that's awesome. But beware, covers often drive customers away.

5)Employees: You'll never have a shortage of help but you'll always have a shortage of good help. Always schedule your best bartenders for your busiest nights. When you have to run 2-3 bartenders at once make sure they work well together and don't step on each others feet. A good bartender is worth so much and dont be afraid to spend lots on one. Especially on slow nights, a good bartender can turn a Tuesday night into a Thursday or Friday. Have one bartender exclusively for your waitresses on fri/sat.

6)Laws, licenses, etc: Read up as much as you can about all of that stuff. In New York the ABC Board will usually send a minor into your place every 1-3 years. First offense is a fine I believe. Second might be your liquor license (in which case it's game over folks).


Anyway I hope I gave you some things to think about. As you can tell most of my experience is with college bars. If you're planning a more upscale place I don't really have any advice other than charge lots.

The most important thing to do first is to establish an idea of your chances of survival. If you can make it 5 years profitably you're generally golden until you want to sell, lose your license, or they raise the drinking age or something. Go to the other bars around where you're planning to establish yours. Go every night of the week and take it all in. Figure out what they're doing right and what you could improve on. If there are no other bars in your target area you're either extremely lucky or it's not a profitable area.

Good luck!

Re: Opening a Bar
 

zacd,

This is essentially a dirt hole. I personally don't go to bars like this at all. But first, thank you for the well written and thoughtful post. Lemme see if I can get through this.

1) Location and Demos are solid. There is a central bar district where just about every bar is located. Well atleast ~70% of the main bars in town. So it creates a ton of bar hopping. The particular area we were looking at is a little bit spaced away from the main area (3 blocks) and across the street from another bar. Both were open previously but were dubiously managed.
2) Word. I'm sure I'll come through random nights and make sure everything is fine or bring my friends around to the place every once in a while. But for the most part I'd like to keep it fairly apart from my actual life. I'm kinda hoping ownership culls my drinking a bit as well. Since if I have to go count dollarz at 5AM on Sat morning. I'm likely to not get shammered that night.
3) It'll probably be a "dance club" place with a decent sound system. It'll be able to have a DJ and other stuff. This is mostly the other guys deal. He handles all those sorts of things.
4) Meh. No food. Well maybe, we might have Crawfish Boils or something else occasionally on off nights or something of the sort, but running a full on kitchen seems like mega hassle.
5) I think truer words have never been spoken. Hopefully we can find several responsible kids. I'm inclined to believe that hiring a trustworthy guy and like 4 hotties would be the best bet. Though I'm not super well versed in this area. I'd imagine hot bartenders are always a plus.
6) Yeah, I do need to brush up on this.

From a financials stand point: The initial investment is fairly low and should be able to run at a decent clip if we can get everything off the ground. Markups on drinks etc etc are very high like everywhere. If things go even moderately I should recoup my investment costs in ~6 months plus whatever equity we gain in the business. Obviously, the biggest worry is just outright failure, but starting with something that isn't capital intensive seems to be a solid plan. (Atleast from the small biz readings I've managed)

Re: Opening a Bar
 

Did you see this article a while back?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090201331.html

Some of those vegas clubs bring in $50 million a year...

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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zacd,

This is essentially a dirt hole.
...
3) It'll probably be a "dance club"

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A "dirt hole" for girls? Sounds like you have some more thinking to do.

eastbay

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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my far sketchier partner handles that side.


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This seems like a bad idea.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

You've gotten a lot of great advice already, and you seem smart and competent enough. I just wanted to say that this proposition seems somewhat risky. I don't know about a bar, but my dad used to own a liquor store and his margin was 8%. You've gotta sell a hell of a lot of booze to live, get an adequate risk-adjusted ROI, etc. on an 8% margin. That amounts to constant work IMO. Dunno if thats typical or not, its possible that dad didn't know what he was doing.

Personally, I no longer get involved with partners. If I find a deal that I need a partner to pull off, I either look for investors that could take the place of a partner, or I pass. If you do decide to get involved with a partner you need to make sure the you get everything in writing, most importantly who has what responsibilities and how the cash will be split. I can forsee a major potential problem if you've each put in 50% of the cash, but your partner does 90% of the work. There WILL come a point at which he's tired to getting half the money for doing all the work. This is inevitable, so figure it out up front.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

Thremp,

You're one of the more intelligent guys around the forums and I am sure you can find a better investment than this. A few more thoughts:

1)Dance clubs are totally hit or miss. What music to play? How big should the dance floor be (hint: as small as you can make it)? For the most part dancing is going to reduce people's time spent buying booze. Where you place your actual bar(s) inside is going to have a big impact on profits with a dance club.

2)Bar-hopping might seem great because you're basically assured of at least some business but for an owner bar-hopping is unwanted unless you run the place where the customer's spend the most time.

3)I would never advise someone own and operate a bar until they have worked in one.

4)Partnership businesses can be stressful. It sounds like you're going to be handling most of the managerial duties and he's going to decide on the entertainment. So he's going to have to come to you to validate purchasing x. You will inevitably have to say no to something and this may cause conflict. I also don't like it when you say he is "sketchy".

So now I am sounding like a pessimist but I think some of the reasons are valid. However if you really have the desire to go through with this and you think a dance club is an unfilled niche of your area go for it. Just play it like any other gamble, only risk what you're willing to lose/know you can't get back. As with any alcohol/food/restaurant/etc establishment where physical patronage is required, luck is going to play a factor.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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I don't know about a bar, but my dad used to own a liquor store and his margin was 8%.

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20% on liquor, 25% on bottle beer, 30% on Draw beer. Had two bars for 8.5 years, one a neighborhood lounge, the other a preppie dance/live music club. I had a silent partner which made me the day to day operator. Best advice I can offer you is to let the operator make 100% of the personell decisions, if not they will run to Mommy/Daddy (you) and try to get a more favorable decision.

Also be sure to incorporate and still carry a large (Million $ at least) personal liability policy. Would also advise an insurance policy on each partner payable to the other partner in an amount large enough to pay his/her estate for their share of the business should one of you die, like in a barfight stabbing for instance. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


YMMV

Jimbo

Re: Opening a Bar
 

spex,

I think the markup on booze is typically ~200% in a bar. Cases of beer 15-18 bucks and sells for >70 per case. Well drinks pretty stiff as well with top shelf having the least markup from the tentative figures I've looked at.

Jimbo,

Yeah, I'll probably try to insulate liability with an LLC. Also a large umbrella policy is a must have if I decide to do this. Thankfully, I won't be at the bar enough to get stabbed. I think your margins are more in line with what we're expecting.

eastbay,

When in school I like to refer to something I called the dork "majority", what I was really referring to was that most people aren't in your social crowd. This is a place that I won't frequent really ever. It seems that the girls I hang out with won't be there ever. Yet, I still see 2-3 places with them (Keep in mind this is in AL, and thus the ratio of trashy to normal to ghey is probably like 5:1:1 vs somewhere like Seattle where it'd be 2:1:87 or something of the sort). I should clarify that dance club is used loosely.

zacd,

By sketchy I mean like "I bang 7 different trashy girls at once". Whereas I on the other hand would probably be repulsed by several and annoyed. He "fits in" with the crowd that the bar will cater to much better than I would. Division of duties is an issue and will have to be clarified more fully so that we don't overstep each others boundaries. Most entertainment will be cheap local bands or DJs depending on the evening.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

All,

For clarification, let me explain my thoughts more fully and a couple things I've taken away so far.

1) I've yet to get clear books from my "partner", but at this point I think our monthly nut is somewhere around 3k. Needless to say this weighs fairly huge in my decision making (He is currently dating the rental spaces daughter which a huge clusterfuck that needs to be solved, but if we can cut initial investment and get atleast a 1 year lease locked in at retardedly low rate. Shipz)
2) To cover this... It would likely take almost nothing at all. We'd need to pack the place out once a month. Or just have a decent sized crowd a few times a month.
3) He is currently managing another bar that runs a large Thur night crowd, but opens at 1 on Fri/Sat due to his current agreement. This is another issue that I think needs to be worried about. How he splits his time and priorities etc.

Things I'm taking away:
1) I'm not actually "working" in the bar. I will likely be there rarely during business hours. We'll have video surveillance and an annoying inventory control system so we can match profit margins and hire someone to watch tapes if we need to make sure we aren't being skimmed. Not to mention for general liability reasons this seems to be A+.
2) Get a large umbrella policy to make sure nothing goes awry.
3) Be sure to lay out responsibilities before we move forward on anything.

spex,

I reread what you wrote. I am actually the investor. I will be doing none of the work and putting in all the money. The only real work I'll be doing is auditing type stuff to make sure I'm not getting dicked and collecting dollars.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

very off-topic but for people who worked/owned bars what is the deal with watering down drinks? Common practice or mostly just urban legends?

Re: Opening a Bar
 

just from observation and have not worked in a bar that deals with this complaint. So I am not qualified to answer this, but I will give it a shot anyway.

a full cup of ice, with warm liquor, in a warm bar, in a warm hand leads to a quicker ice melt and more of a "watering down" effect.

Another issue could be a crappy gun system where the water comes out a little more first before the drink mix.

I think that if bars were known for watering down drinks that people would realize the drinks suck and not frequent that place anymore. As others have mentioned before repeat business is the key and watering down drinks would hurt that.

So I vote for urban legend and most watered down drinks are hopefully attributed to the above and not by dubious characters.

Just my .02

Re: Opening a Bar
 

i've spent my last 4 years in a small student+local town with about 20 different pubs/bars. you see the ones which suceed and those which change. some were really popular one year but struggled the next year and ended out completely overhauling the interior.

my advice on most things on the finance forum is pretty worthless, but on bars i think it's pretty knowledgeable (from a consumer, obv not an owner, i have no idea).

- barstaff; employ the hottest bar staff you can find, female and male. i lived 2 years ago with a couple of girls who loved to party, they went where the hot guys were. employing good looking barstaff will help a lot. the reason i went to one bar way more than the rest was becuase a few of the female barstaff were stunning.

- if your going down a student/college route, get the college football team or whatever to always come once a week/sponsor them (typically on the least busiest night so it helps fill it up). this means the girls know where to find the 'hot' guys. thus you have both guys and girls going, both are happy.

- provide enough seating. people who want to go out for hours, those you want, do not want to stand for ages. provide enough seating and those people are happy.

- lots of bar staff. waiting for a drink is [censored] annoying. therefore have to build a long bar so the bar staff don't trip over each other.

- cocktails. people love to drink good strongish cocktails, plus you can charge a lot.

- drinks deals, nothing amazing, just 3 for $x. gets people more drunk so they spend more and have a better time (in general).

- ideally have all seating during day and say 4 nights a week, then on the other 3 nights, say thur-sun then clear 1/3 or so of the tables during a quiet time in the day for a dance floor with dj. this means those who want to dance stay at your place and don't leave.

- some booths. seating in booths can make people feel more comfortable so they will drink more.

just some thoughts

Re: Opening a Bar
 

OP, sounds like some of the other posters have given some solid advice. I worked in bars (dance clubs) for a few years & I'll echo a couple of their points.

1. Location & demographic. People willing to spend $$$ won't come to a dive where they sweep up the eyeballs at closing time.

2. Licenses: Educate yourself on business & liquor license requirements.

3. Sound system: I didn't read all the responses thoughly but if you plan to open a dance club/large bar, then budget a lot of $$$ for this item. The club I used to work at had a system worth approx. $250k. That was in the mid 90's.

4. Shady business partners: NO, NO, NO, Firsthand experience, avoid these like a case of the clap. They are the last thing you want in a cash rich business like a bar. My old employer's 'silent' partner got the ATF & IRS agents to pay us a visit because he was a scumbag who didn't like to pay taxes. I saw the handwriting on the wall beforehand & got out.

5. Good employees: bad ones will always rob you blind.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

Brad,

It seems utterly retarded to put a 250k sound system in almost any bar. I don't think it would be justifiable in any sort of way.

All,

From what I'm looking at it I can get this thing together for <30k budgeting 3 months expenses. If we can keep monthly fixed costs under 3k, it'd be hard not to make ends meet.

We'll see what happens.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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Brad,

It seems utterly retarded to put a 250k sound system in almost any bar. I don't think it would be justifiable in any sort of way.

All,

From what I'm looking at it I can get this thing together for <30k budgeting 3 months expenses. If we can keep monthly fixed costs under 3k, it'd be hard not to make ends meet.

We'll see what happens.

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What part of "dance club" did you not get....this wasn't your "neighborhood bar down on the corner".

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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very off-topic but for people who worked/owned bars what is the deal with watering down drinks? Common practice or mostly just urban legends?

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Thremp,

I ran a successful bar/restaurant for many years but this thread is already too long to read each post. PM me if you want need some clarification or detail. My knowledge however is limited to New York State regulations..as many other states seem to have some very strange laws.

ahnuld,

Common practice. You would be amazed how much it's actually done.But for the most part, they try to limit it to top shelf that's usually used for mixed drinks. A liqueur that is more often used for shots generally will be left alone. Comes down to profit...when push comes to shove, principle tends to diminish with each shot.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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It seems utterly retarded to put a 250k sound system in almost any bar. I don't think it would be justifiable in any sort of way.

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Your going to want to save as much money as possible. Much better off trying to out source a sound system through some type of "under the table" arrangement.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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I reread what you wrote. I am actually the investor. I will be doing none of the work and putting in all the money. The only real work I'll be doing is auditing type stuff to make sure I'm not getting dicked and collecting dollars.


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Hate to say it but these types of situations rarely work out in the long run. If you are going to be an "owner", then plan on sacrificing everything else and committing your self to being par of the place 100% of the time. Majority of the failure you see is attributed to not only lack of planning but lack of management.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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My uncle owns a bar and in effect knows many other people that own bars. I grew up around that type of business (Ithaca, NY) so I'll try to list some aspects that I think are important...

1) Location and Demographic: I'm sure you've already thought about all of this. Obviously college towns are great but often way too many open in a small area and basically eat themselves. In Ithaca new bars open every year with a lifespan of 1-4 years usually. I'd say the ones that survive are the ones who a)are located far enough from other bars but still close enough to get to by foot and b)establish themselves quickly as a fun place. Don't even bother opening a bar if your target area is already over-saturated. Every new owner always thinks they can pull business away from others with their sweet idea but it rarely happens. The goal is to get a core group of returning customers and they will bring new people who become part of the core, etc etc. If you never establish repeat business you will fail.

Stock product based on your consumers. If you're catering to mainly college kids you don't need to stock much JW Blue and if you're pulling mainly professionals you won't need alot of Natural Ice.

2)Being an Owner: Very important. So many bars fail because the owner creates the perfect place for HIMSELF to party. Falling asleep at the bar every night fully cocked is a great way for your employees to rob you blind and ruin the chances of you living a long, healthy life. I applaud your decision to stay behind the scenes. Owning AND running a bar is a life-draining experience.

3)Pool-tables, music, arcade machines, etc: Pool-tables, pinballs, and especially whatever music device you choose will all make bank. Arcade cabs for the most part will not, unless you can magically get a new game rotated in twice a year. Most bars bring in an amusement company to stock their place and split the profits 50/50, 60/40, or lower if you make nothing. My advice, if you have some excess capital, would be to purchase all your own equipment. It will pay itself off reasonably quickly and after you've sufficiently profited -- home-owners buy second hand pool tables like they're going out of style. Remember if you do choose to buy all of your own equipment you are responsible for the upkeep (pool tables will jam monthly at least).

4)Food: Some bars do well just selling terrible food way overpriced. Some bars use their food services to bring customers in. I've seen $1 burgers and $.10 wings do exceptionally well. You sell the food at near loss and make the $$ from the alcohol sales. Oh that's another thing, I'm not sure if you're doing live music or other forms of entertainment but make no mistake -- all of your profit is from alcohol sales. Everything else is just a lure. If you're doing exceptionally well and can get away with charging a cover that's awesome. But beware, covers often drive customers away.

5)Employees: You'll never have a shortage of help but you'll always have a shortage of good help. Always schedule your best bartenders for your busiest nights. When you have to run 2-3 bartenders at once make sure they work well together and don't step on each others feet. A good bartender is worth so much and dont be afraid to spend lots on one. Especially on slow nights, a good bartender can turn a Tuesday night into a Thursday or Friday. Have one bartender exclusively for your waitresses on fri/sat.

6)Laws, licenses, etc: Read up as much as you can about all of that stuff. In New York the ABC Board will usually send a minor into your place every 1-3 years. First offense is a fine I believe. Second might be your liquor license (in which case it's game over folks).


Anyway I hope I gave you some things to think about. As you can tell most of my experience is with college bars. If you're planning a more upscale place I don't really have any advice other than charge lots.

The most important thing to do first is to establish an idea of your chances of survival. If you can make it 5 years profitably you're generally golden until you want to sell, lose your license, or they raise the drinking age or something. Go to the other bars around where you're planning to establish yours. Go every night of the week and take it all in. Figure out what they're doing right and what you could improve on. If there are no other bars in your target area you're either extremely lucky or it's not a profitable area.

Good luck!

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Zacd is on point! Making western New York Proud!

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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spex,

I reread what you wrote. I am actually the investor. I will be doing none of the work and putting in all the money. The only real work I'll be doing is auditing type stuff to make sure I'm not getting dicked and collecting dollars.

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I'm not really understanding how the ownership will be split between you and your partner. Is he going to manage the bar but have no ownership interest? Or will he manage and have a partial interest?

In either case, I think that you want to be very very careful. If you and your man get into a fight and he decides to flake out on you, what do you plan to do? You don't know how to run a bar. You might think about how the business will operate in such a circumstance. Personally, I wouldn't get my money tied up in a business where the burden of operations rests solely on one individual (although, admittedly, I have done this in the past).

I'd recommend that after you open you spend some time in the bar learning how to run the place to plan for such a scenario. That way if your man flakes you can at least hold the business over until you can find an adequate replacement.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

I am a little skeptical of keeping your monthly fixed costs under 3k.

How big is this place? How much of your 3k do you realistically think will be taken by rent? Satellite, Electric, Phone, Insurance (I am guessing this will be higher than you or I would think). Liquor License.

If your place is over a certain size, you can not legally play copyrighted music in your place without paying a licensing fee. From the web...Without a special license, owners of bars, clubs and restaurants could be sued for playing any one of 8 million recorded songs, even from their own CDs.

Doesn't seem like an outrageous fee (maybe 1000 a year) but still one to consider.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

Ahnuld: Depends on the bar. I've never bartended but I have DJed in clubs for a number of years and heard a variety of stories down the line.

Depending on how the bar "weighs" or keeps track of how much booze is sold often determines whether the bartender can earn extra money by short pouring.

Bartenders have told me that by short pouring they were able to make hundreds more a night because of the way the bar determine how much the bartender owed them at the end of the night.

Most clubs I imagine these days use a system where it's not in the best intrests of the bartender to short pour. Whether management tells them to or not is another story. Anything off the gun from my experience is also watered down.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

Thremp,

I thought this would fail until you said you were in AL.

Auburn has the lamest and crappiest bar scene I can imagine, but the people I went out with were all too excited to pay absurd covers to go to complete dives--and this was in the middle of summer.

Take a field trip to Athens, GA, if you want to see how a real college bar scene (probably 5x the size of AUB) works. Check out the Loft to see how a dance club should be run and check out Rumour to see how it shouldn't be run.

Also,

Does you school have ID cards? Getting the demographic right at dance clubs is crucial (or else girls feel a place is "sketchy" and avoid it like the plague). Charging a huge cover with a huge student ID discount makes the demographic much more favorable.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

T50,

Those places in Auburn are somewhat respectable compared to the dives we frequent. Needless to say... Its pretty par for the demographic. We actually might try to get the place fixed up to look a little bit nicer. But I will have to see the building and get some figures first. Worst case scenario, we just open a pretty meh place.

I really like that student ID night, it might have some liability concerns cause that is a frequent topic the "white trash" infestation that ends up chasing college girls around like herpes. Awesomeness. I'm hungover. Choo Choo

Thanks for the advice.

Re: Opening a Bar
 

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the "white trash" infestation that ends up chasing college girls around like herpes.

[/ QUOTE ] ...and they'll pay great money to do it.