fish commenting on my tight play
 

So I play 2-5 limit at my local b&m, and unfortunately that's the biggest game they have. You can't push anyone out at this level, and people play junk to the river every hand, so it's hardly even poker. People play there like they're playing slots, so I've found that the only way to beat the game is to play good cards and not get involved with the maniacs throwing $ at every pot. Well, it seems after a while of playing a session at a table (and usually successfully) some fish has to make some comment about me playing a limited amount of hands, and of course he's playing every hand and has usually already bought back in a few times.

So, my question is, do any of you have any witty retorts to the fish trying to tell me how to play? I asked a fish last night about his chapter in his book that states you should play junk to the river every hand. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Don't tap on the glass. Why would you want to encourage people to play well?

I would just drink while you play. Folding will be less boring and the fish will think that you are loose.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

ignore it, or just make a comment like "i havent been lucky today, so why risk it" to make it look like youre fishy as well

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

You raise a good point, I don't want to encourage people to play well. However, when they make loud comments out of ignorance about my play, it annoys me. Maybe I should just ignore it.
I'd rather say something funny though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
You raise a good point, I don't want to encourage people to play well. However, when they make loud comments out of ignorance about my play, it annoys me. I should just ignore it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you should.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, my question is, do any of you have any witty retorts to the fish trying to tell me how to play? I asked a fish last night about his chapter in his book that states you should play junk to the river every hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that hinting at the fact that you actually read books about poker is probably bad. Making fun of your self is better.

I get some of those comments occasionally. And I just say something like, "Well, I played a pair of aces an hour ago, but only because they were suited."

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, when they make loud comments out of ignorance about my play, it annoys me. Maybe I should just ignore it.
I'd rather say something funny though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want to enjoy your time in a card room you need to improve your annoyance threshold; i.e., don't let yourself get annoyed over what amounts to nothing.

Only say something funny if it is funny and doesn't point in the direction that playing fewer hands is the right way to play. Otherwise you can simply shrug.

~ Rick

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

God bless internet poker!!! Just be quiet or make fun of yourself, if you don't want to make money tell them to tighten up.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

This always happens to me in my local $3-6 and $4-8 bingo games. I just loudly complain about being "card dead", and that usually takes care of it. "If I see another 9-2..."

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Sounds like my $2/$5 spread limit Colorado B&M game - only casino game around. I usually just say something innocuous like "Whaddya do? Keep getting J2o or 10-4o every hand. Wait till I see any Ace." Knowing full well the next Ace I play will have the fish crushed. Easy money.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Just smile and move on

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

I would b.... slap him back to Bankok if he asked me something stupid like that!

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Recently at MGM I shoved like 5x pot on river HU holding the nuts. My opponent remarked on my tight play while pondering a call...I told him if I had a decision against a nit like me I would just muck.
Table had a good laugh.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Don't say anything that will teach the fish how to play (most likely they won't listen, but why risk it) or piss them off so they don't want to play with you. Another thing you can do in a 2-5 spread limit game that might divert some attention is loosen up a bit in late position. If you've got lots of limpers ahead of you, you can profitably limp in with some suited trash -- one and two gappers, suited kings and queens, etc. This will make you appear to fit in with the fish without jeopardizing your bankroll. Your implied odds when limping are quite a bit higher than in a structured limit game.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

You know the saying..."give some action to get some" no one wants to play with a rock.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Good thoughts. I'll try that in my play.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

I think it's funny that I'm supposed to give give other people my $$$ to be polite. That's ridiculous. If they don't like my play, that's just too damn bad. I'm not there for charity.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

I once had a player at MGM NL1/2 start commenting on my tight play, which was actually more because I never saw two cards that looked at all alike at the same time for a couple hours. But he just kept on and on, initially kinda friendly about it, but then trended toward unpleasant. Eventually I snagged something I could play and raised to $12 pre-flop. This yahoo immediately yells out to the table "FOLD! EVERYBODY FOLD! Don't give him action! He doesn't give us action, don't give him action! Just lay down your hands. Teach him a lesson." I steamed quietly a while about this, since it's such a clear violation of rules, but decided this guy was SOOO good for the game I wasn't gonna say a thing, and I stayed pleasant and just kept with the smalltalk and ignored the fellow. He played every hand, raised with any two cards bigger than an 8, and was a calling station. But he'd also gotten lucky and turned $200 into $1000. By the time he left 2 hours later, he'd given it all back plus another $200. And of course he couldn't resist calling my raises once I started to pick up playable hands (probably convinced he had goaded me into playing crap). I even politely said good night to him as he left--you never know, he might be back the next night.

Most folks will get tired of trying to bully someone if the victim doesn't respond. Regardless they're trying to get you to change how you play. Giving in is playing their game.

As for whether you SHOULD change how you play with a loose and stupid batch of locals, well that's more a topic for the strategy boards.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

obv pull a starting hand chart out of your pocket to vindicate your strategy

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
obv pull a starting hand chart out of your pocket to vindicate your strategy

[/ QUOTE ]
You should supplement this by showing your cards to your neighbor each hand. That way he'll be able to vouch for your perfect play.

tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

Yup. Tell him you're new, but trying to learn how to play good like him. That's why you bought Al_Capone_Junior's new book "play bad, win big."

Don't forget to mention my chapters on ...

straddling (the straddle rule: 4 beers and I start straddlin')

any two will do

49o: powerhouse revisited

The only losers are the ones who folded

they were sooooted.

Al

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

LOL, I sit at a $4-8 game a while back and a friend of mine starts telling everyone how tight I play. I am think to myself, "Damit Winston, shut up!". The next hand I get KK UTG raise and get eight callers. I am not certain comments about how tight you play have a significant impact on your action.

After all, they came to the casino to play, not fold.

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

Seperate your ego from poker. Also, where I typically play you are allowed to straddle from any position for however much you want. I sometimes like to straddle from late position, usually the button, to appear looser than I am, and atleast get money in from position. Where I play the action always begins from the left of the straddle, so straddling from the button allows you to be last to act on each street.

Obviously, without this advantage in your poker room I would take the previously noted advice of loosening up from late position. This can be profitable if you can see a cheap flop, even with rags.

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I sit at a $4-8 game a while back and a friend of mine starts telling everyone how tight I play. I am think to myself, "Damit Winston, shut up!". The next hand I get KK UTG raise and get eight callers. I am not certain comments about how tight you play have a significant impact on your action.

After all, they came to the casino to play, not fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may not have noticed a difference that game but over the long run many of the players who give too much action see the better players showing off their "good folds" and "tight play" and eventually tighten up and improve a little faster than they otherwise would have.

~ Rick

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I sit at a $4-8 game a while back and a friend of mine starts telling everyone how tight I play. I am think to myself, "Damit Winston, shut up!". The next hand I get KK UTG raise and get eight callers. I am not certain comments about how tight you play have a significant impact on your action.

After all, they came to the casino to play, not fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't affect their preflop play that much unless the pot is short-handed, but from experience, it definitely affects how much action they give you after the flop.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Yeah don't offer advice and let them know they play like a donk - they may get better.

Leave your ego at home and say something like "Well I don't think I'm as good as some of you guys. I'm trying to learn to get better". Then cash in their money and go home.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Depending on the mood of the table or how likely it will cause the person to play even worse I will say something like

"oh thats because I dont have a gambling problem like you do"
or "Oh jeez Im sorry, Its just that I like winning money when I come here"

I know its pretty aggressive but it comes in handy the next time youre holding a monster and hes sure his middle pair rag kicker is good.. and if you lose just tell them it was a nice hand without sarcasm or hurt in your voice. 7 different kinds of smoke.. keeps the table guessing

Decided to throw a quick add on here.. I was playing a week or so ago at Foxwoods and there was this little older guy in a suit, big glasses and an accent I couldnt peg down. I think it was russian or one of the neighboring countries. Anyway he would grumble and moan about not getting any cards.. show the dealer his hand every time he folds.. make the dealer was the deck over and over. Finally the ol drill sargent retiree with the buzz cut to his left started picking on him and grilling him asking him if he was American.. Americans dont talk like that Americans blah blah blah so I decided to play table police because it was getting pretty uncomfortable and with a few sharp phrases about where you come from has nothing to do with how you play cards and I had him on his heels and soon apologizing and trying to make friends. Oddly enough about an hour later I got "you better bring a gun if youre going to meet me in the parking lot" from the guy I defended.. too which I laughed and said "woah woah.. I only carry a knife man, you win you win" and got the table laughing.

A very interesting day but it kept the loose people playing and I left with money

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
So, my question is, do any of you have any witty retorts to the fish trying to tell me how to play? I asked a fish last night about his chapter in his book that states you should play junk to the river every hand. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't bother with witty retorts. Straddle a couple times early if everyone else is doing it. Order an adult beverage of your preference and nurse it. Tell a bad beat story. You'd be surprised how few will notice your play after that point. If someone does, shrug and mumble about being card dead. Straddle at the next opportunity or toss the dealer a $1 to "change your luck". Witty retorts make you memorable. You want to blend in (or appear to rather) as much as possible.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

I really like this response-"Well I don't think I'm as good as some of you guys. I'm trying to learn to get better"

I think a lot of you are reading into my question, and maybe I should make myself clear. At the b&m where I play, even though I play tight, I'll have Aces, bet out 7 pre-flop and usually get 7-8 callers.
People don't really bother factoring in strategy against tight players there. In a no-limit game, these people would get destroyed. You can read them like books, and they all call and raise to the river with junk.

So, I guess I'm saying that It doesn't really matter if these people think I'm tight or loose, it doesn't change their play. I just want some funny things to say. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LOL, I sit at a $4-8 game a while back and a friend of mine starts telling everyone how tight I play. I am think to myself, "Damit Winston, shut up!". The next hand I get KK UTG raise and get eight callers. I am not certain comments about how tight you play have a significant impact on your action.

After all, they came to the casino to play, not fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may not have noticed a difference that game but over the long run many of the players who give too much action see the better players showing off their "good folds" and "tight play" and eventually tighten up and improve a little faster than they otherwise would have.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. I wasn't doing the talking or showing anything down. My point was in regards to third party comments about my play. I don't think they have near the impact as the actions you mentioned.

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

maybe complain about holdings but just talk more in general if you want to seem more involved in the game. It really works well.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
You raise a good point, I don't want to encourage people to play well. However, when they make loud comments out of ignorance about my play, it annoys me. Maybe I should just ignore it.
I'd rather say something funny though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

What ignorance? It sounds like you're playing tight and the guy said you were tight? Did he imply that you were a bad player? If so, why wouldn't you want to further encourage that line of thinking? There's nothing I like better when playing poker than a bad player thinking he's better than I am.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

I think the main problem is that it destroys your action if some idiot announces to the whole table that you play tight.

What i usually do in this spot is showing a bluff, or even better bluff the guy who destroys my action. Very often they will fold their holdings to a good sized bet couse you are playing so "tight". However I play NL so dont try this too often at limit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Great example at the game tonight. I folded 10-15 hands being that I was just getting crap cards. Finally I get pocket queens, and I raise to $7. Guess what? 7 callers.
Flop comes 2d-3h-3d. I raise to $5, villain (LAG)raises to $10, next player (LAG) to his left takes it to $15. Table folds to me, I call. Turn comes a 6c. I raise $5(all in), call, call. River is a 5h. Villain turns over Jd4d for the straight, guy in front of him mucks. I can understand all of his outs after the flop and turn, but to raise pre-flop with J4suited? I'm guessing his loose buddy next to him was playing the same junk he'd been playing all night. I'm to the point of learning micro-limit games are more about getting lucky cards than playing poker. You can't push people out of anything, and they all play garbage to the river. If you catch cards, you'll slaughter the place, but for me, it's no limit from here on out for a while.

Reminds me of $5 limit blackjack. If you're counting cards, when the deck gets positive, you can't put enough $ in when the odds are in your favor to offset the negative deck playing time.
low limit=less about skill, more about luck

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

One of the funniest things I've done when a losing fish, who thinks hes an expert but keeps getting felted and buying back in, lectures someone is this:

I loudly called for a chip runner (meanwhile I was deepstacked). Everyone at the table was really confused. When the chip runner came over to the table I said "Just stand behind that guy over there (pointed to fish) and wait...he'll need you again shortly"

Re: tell him you\'re about to start reading my new book
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yup. Tell him you're new, but trying to learn how to play good like him. That's why you bought Al_Capone_Junior's new book "play bad, win big."

Don't forget to mention my chapters on ...

straddling (the straddle rule: 4 beers and I start straddlin')

any two will do

49o: powerhouse revisited

The only losers are the ones who folded

they were sooooted.

Al

[/ QUOTE ]

MORE CHAPTERS PLZ !!!!

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the main problem is that it destroys your action if some idiot announces to the whole table that you play tight.

What i usually do in this spot is showing a bluff, or even better bluff the guy who destroys my action. Very often they will fold their holdings to a good sized bet couse you are playing so "tight". However I play NL so dont try this too often at limit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got no problem with playing with a tight image. (But I play limit.) Why would I destroy my tight table image by showing my bluffs?

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great example at the game tonight. I folded 10-15 hands being that I was just getting crap cards. Finally I get pocket queens, and I raise to $7. Guess what? 7 callers.
Flop comes 2d-3h-3d. I raise to $5, villain (LAG)raises to $10, next player (LAG) to his left takes it to $15. Table folds to me, I call. Turn comes a 6c. I raise $5(all in), call, call. River is a 5h. Villain turns over Jd4d for the straight, guy in front of him mucks. I can understand all of his outs after the flop and turn, but to raise pre-flop with J4suited? I'm guessing his loose buddy next to him was playing the same junk he'd been playing all night. I'm to the point of learning micro-limit games are more about getting lucky cards than playing poker. You can't push people out of anything, and they all play garbage to the river. If you catch cards, you'll slaughter the place, but for me, it's no limit from here on out for a while.

Reminds me of $5 limit blackjack. If you're counting cards, when the deck gets positive, you can't put enough $ in when the odds are in your favor to offset the negative deck playing time.
low limit=less about skill, more about luck

[/ QUOTE ]
blurred, don't get put off by this kind of beat. You should love their play because long term you are +EV. Yes I know it hurts like hell when the donks catch but that type of play you want to keep happening.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Some of my favorite comments that I make at the table if someone comments on my play:
Its my first time playing this game how am i doing?
If someone comments on how tight im playing, I tell them that the slot machines and table games are over there if I feel the urge to burn money
But i was halfway in (limit obviously)
I had outs (when its clear i didn't)
But I was soooted and soooted hands are always the nuts!
I had to play my favorite hand
Because I saw you just do it so I thought I could too (if i hit runner runner)
But I had top top (Jamie gold reference insues)
If someone comments on the fact they can't beat me I tell them not to worry I'll give it back at some point (lol)
Always say ty no matter how sarcastic someone is when they say nh

I'll think of some other gems to add later.

Re: fish commenting on my tight play
 

Since this is the psych forum, let me first start out with the 'be realistic about your own play' statement before the strategy analysis... Is this 1/2 nl?

[ QUOTE ]
Great example at the game tonight. I folded 10-15 hands being that I was just getting crap cards. Finally I get pocket queens, and I raise to $7. Guess what? 7 callers.
Flop comes 2d-3h-3d. I raise to $5, villain (LAG)raises to $10, next player (LAG) to his left takes it to $15. Table folds to me, I call. Turn comes a 6c. I raise $5(<u>all in</u>)

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I reading correctly that you had 7+15+5= $27 at the start of this hand? You got 7 callers on a 3.5x raise ... what position were you in?

8x$7= $56 in the pot pre-flop. You have $20 left. (with QQ and that flop, I PUSH)

But you bet less than 10% of the pot value on that flop? You probably should have pushed preflop and hoped for less than 3 callers (loose table, right?). Sounds like a tourney move maybe, but when you are this short, the same concepts apply...

Did you buy in full?