Betting the pot.
 

Turning stone 1/2 NL.

On the turn I annonce that I am betting the pot and put a stack of 100$ (pot was arround 70 - 80) and says after having already said "pot" "I am betting whatever there is in the pot".

Dealer annonces a bet of 100$ and I say that I did say pot clearly and loudly twice. He answered that its a NL game and a pot bet is not valid so the bet is what I put in front of me which was 100$.

Well by the time we talked about it the others players folded so I didnt care to ask the floor but what do you think would have been his rulling ?

Re: Betting the pot.
 

AFAIK, declaring a pot bet is meaningless in an NL game. For that matter, if you put a $100 bet into an $80 pot some rooms will allow the bet to stand if your opponent accepts the action. The pot limit rule is to protect me from you, not you from yourself.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Turning stone 1/2 NL.

On the turn I annonce that I am betting the pot and put a stack of 100$ (pot was arround 70 - 80) and says after having already said "pot" "I am betting whatever there is in the pot".

Dealer annonces a bet of 100$ and I say that I did say pot clearly and loudly twice. He answered that its a NL game and a pot bet is not valid so the bet is what I put in front of me which was 100$.

Well by the time we talked about it the others players folded so I didnt care to ask the floor but what do you think would have been his rulling ?

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer got it right. You want to bet the pot then go play PL where they will count the pot for you.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

I'm certain he would have ruled that you're not entitled to a count of the pot. Whether he lets you specify another bet size or not might vary.

Suppose you had said "I raise to a bajillion" and put out $100. Your bet would probably be ruled to be $100; you couldn't claim that "a bajillion" was a legal declaration of intent to raise, say, $80, or $1000.

In my mind, saying "I bet the pot" in a NL game is close to as meaningless as "I raise to a bajillion".

Re: Betting the pot.
 

Well if you say "I raise 200$" and only put 100$ you still have to bet 200$ as what you say is more important than what you put in front of you.

So I figured it would be the same here. Btw how come you cant ask for the dealer to count the pot ? I asked for it once and he just shuffled the pot for me to see what chips was in but refused to count.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you say "I raise 200$" and only put 100$ you still have to bet 200$ as what you say is more important than what you put in front of you.

So I figured it would be the same here. Btw how come you cant ask for the dealer to count the pot ? I asked for it once and he just shuffled the pot for me to see what chips was in but refused to count.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just the rule. The dealer is only allowed to count the pot in a pot limit game. And how could you expect the dealer to know how much you were betting if he couldn't count the pot? (I suppose he would also be permitted to count the pot if there were an irregularity in order to ensure that the correct amount was in it.)

We allow counting the pot/making pot bets in my home game. Typically the bettor just reaches into the pot and stacks it himself if he want a count. But you can't do that in a casino.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

Well I didnt knew at that time he couldnt count the pot.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

Damn BM newbie.

j/k. But yeah, "Pot" is not a meaningful bet in NL. And you can't ask for a count of the pot. The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look. So it's important for you to keep track of what goes in.

As to how this rule arose... no idea. I'm going to guess that all games are originally like this, and they made the adjustment to allow a pot count for PL games.

A little bit arbitrary, but nothing close to unfair. I think the dealer handled it correctly. Glad the lesson didn't cost you anything.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

i've occasionally heard players say "i bet the pot" but follow it up with a "how much is in there, dealer?" and dealer usually responds with a quick "probably about 50" without even looking. It doesn't really matter how off the guess is either since 1.8 or 2.3 to 1 on your opponent's pot odds isn't that big a deal.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, HANDS OUT OF THE POT at all times!

The only situations that would require a dealer to touch the pot is the dealer is taking rake or making needed change for blinds/cash that was bet.

Pot bets only count in Pot Limit. The dealer is not allowed to aid the players in the play of a hand, up to and including telling them how much the pot is to help them figure out bet sizing/pot odds.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

I'm curious which rooms one is allowed to forbid the dealer from spreading the pot. In the MidAtlantic, the idea that this couldn't be allowed has never come up.

Note: Not saying it's not true. Just wondering how widespread this is.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious which rooms one is allowed to forbid the dealer from spreading the pot. In the MidAtlantic, the idea that this couldn't be allowed has never come up.

Note: Not saying it's not true. Just wondering how widespread this is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any supervisor that understands poker should require that the dealers not touch the pot. If you find a room where the dealers are allowed to spread the pot I would be very careful as this makes it easier for the dealer to steal money and most likely that the floor is not familiar with basic procedures to protect the game.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

I don't mind the spreading the pot thing. If you wanna spread it then go ahead and spread it.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, HANDS OUT OF THE POT at all times!

The only situations that would require a dealer to touch the pot is the dealer is taking rake or making needed change for blinds/cash that was bet.

Pot bets only count in Pot Limit. The dealer is not allowed to aid the players in the play of a hand, up to and including telling them how much the pot is to help them figure out bet sizing/pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the dealer allowed to touch the pot in pot limit?

If not, what happens if the dealer says the pot is one amount but one of the players in the hand claims he is wrong?

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well if you say "I raise 200$" and only put 100$ you still have to bet 200$ as what you say is more important than what you put in front of you.

So I figured it would be the same here. Btw how come you cant ask for the dealer to count the pot ? I asked for it once and he just shuffled the pot for me to see what chips was in but refused to count.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already answered that for you. In NLHE the dealer doesn't count the pot and he shouldn't be spreading ships around either. Part of the game is being able to calculate the previous bets. If you can't do that then the other players who can have a built in edge. Why should you get that edge back for free?

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, HANDS OUT OF THE POT at all times!

The only situations that would require a dealer to touch the pot is the dealer is taking rake or making needed change for blinds/cash that was bet.

Pot bets only count in Pot Limit. The dealer is not allowed to aid the players in the play of a hand, up to and including telling them how much the pot is to help them figure out bet sizing/pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the dealer allowed to touch the pot in pot limit?

If not, what happens if the dealer says the pot is one amount but one of the players in the hand claims he is wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there are typically 9 players and one dealer so they will correct the dealer if he is wrong about the pot size.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, HANDS OUT OF THE POT at all times!

The only situations that would require a dealer to touch the pot is the dealer is taking rake or making needed change for blinds/cash that was bet.

Pot bets only count in Pot Limit. The dealer is not allowed to aid the players in the play of a hand, up to and including telling them how much the pot is to help them figure out bet sizing/pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the dealer allowed to touch the pot in pot limit?

If not, what happens if the dealer says the pot is one amount but one of the players in the hand claims he is wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot limit is one of those games where the dealer has to touch the pot. I haven't played much live, casino PL but at our home games we have the dealer stack the bets in the middle to make counting easier.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Pot limit is one of those games where the dealer has to touch the pot. I haven't played much live, casino PL but at our home games we have the dealer stack the bets in the middle to make counting easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stewart Reuben & Bob Ciaffone, in "Pot-Limit & No-Limit Poker", actually recommend that the dealer just keep mental track of the pot size. They state that many players prefer not having the pot stacked up neatly, as it "draws too much attention to pot size." In practice the pot size needs to be known or mentioned only when somebody tries to exceed it.

FWIW, I prefer having the pot stacked neatly but I play mostly split-pot games, where it is much more important for keeping the game moving quickly.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The dealer can only spread it around so you can get a better look.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not allow dealers to spread the pot. The dealer should not be touching the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT, HANDS OUT OF THE POT at all times!

The only situations that would require a dealer to touch the pot is the dealer is taking rake or making needed change for blinds/cash that was bet.

Pot bets only count in Pot Limit. The dealer is not allowed to aid the players in the play of a hand, up to and including telling them how much the pot is to help them figure out bet sizing/pot odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is the dealer allowed to touch the pot in pot limit?

If not, what happens if the dealer says the pot is one amount but one of the players in the hand claims he is wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there are typically 9 players and one dealer so they will correct the dealer if he is wrong about the pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what about split pot games? I've played in games where the dealer stacked the pot after every street so it didn't take 5 minutes after every hand.

I'm fairly sure I've read rules that while the dealer can't give the player the pot size they can stack the chips to allow the player to correctly count the pot. I feel like you're over-reacting.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

Sadly it seems that I get less and less support from floor people when I refuse to spread a pot. it seems like the spread the pot thing is growing.

Re: Betting the pot.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Turning stone 1/2 NL.

On the turn I annonce that I am betting the pot and put a stack of 100$ (pot was arround 70 - 80) and says after having already said "pot" "I am betting whatever there is in the pot".

Dealer annonces a bet of 100$ and I say that I did say pot clearly and loudly twice. He answered that its a NL game and a pot bet is not valid so the bet is what I put in front of me which was 100$.

Well by the time we talked about it the others players folded so I didnt care to ask the floor but what do you think would have been his rulling ?

[/ QUOTE ]

The dealer got it right. You want to bet the pot then go play PL where they will count the pot for you.

[/ QUOTE ]