Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Under the VIP tab is a 60k FPP HORSE tourney with Barry G.
8 entrants and the whole event will be replayed with all hole-cards shown.

The prize-pool looks a bit short if I am doing the math correctly.
$6800 prize-pool meaning that each of the 8 entries is worth $850 assuming that Barry G is also playing for one of the prizes.
9
Even at only 1.5 cents per FPP you are spending $900 worth of FPP's to enter this thing.

$850 value entry for 60k FPP's means you are getting only 1.416 cents per FPP.

Seems kind of strange \that this event would have such bad FPP value unless I'm reading something wrong.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

If it's bad value, write to support and let them know. I don't even know what FPPs are worth. Factor in that each participant gets a signed copy of my book, whatever that's worth.

Barry

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Bob,
What are the values for FPP's for like oncecall gift certs and stuff?

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

the books make it worth a little bit more of course.

I assume that you are eligible to cash in your own tourney.
If not and the prize-pool is only being divided by 7 players instead of 8 then that changes things too of course.

I just checked the the Hachem/Moneymaker/Raymer/Negreneau single-table tourneys which is 15k FPP's for 10 players for a $2k prize-pool + $250 bounty on the celebrity.
So even if you assume that the bounty will be collected in every tourney which obviously isn't correct the player gets $225 value for his 15k FPP's which is exactly 1.5 cents.

So it appears your tourney isn't that far off.
I guess I just assumed these single-table tourneys would have BETTER value but I guess the fun in playing with the big-name player has value in and of itself which is hard to disagree with.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bob,
What are the values for FPP's for like oncecall gift certs and stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]


Onecall gift-cert at $1k for 62k FPP's = 1.61c/point which is kind of standard.

Nirman-Marcus $1k gift-card is the same.

$1k travel-certificate is only 60k FPP's so that's actually a little better at 1.67c/FPP.

$2500 travel-certificate for 145k FPP's is one of the best values at 1.72 cents per point.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

yeah at 1.6 it'd be a $7500 or so prize pool. I'd definitely play if it were on par with other redemption methods. I may play anyway.

Cool idea.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Barry will you be giving commentary on the replay/trying to give feedback on how hands were played? Definitely a very interesting idea and Im intrigued.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

if its good value, i'd prob play

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

you're not adding in the value of playing POKER with BARRY GREENSTEIN!!! that's worth at least .084 cents per fpp!

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Pretty sure you're being sarcastic. But if Barry chats it up somewhat at the table...and does so only with the players and not with all the idiot rail-birds...then I think the opportunity to chat with him through a single-table tourney could have decent value.

And kleath's idea that if Barry later comments on how the hands were played could really be cool, especially for the players involved, as that is almost like a 1 hour session of Barry evaluating your play.

I'm a tad disappointed in the actual cash-per-point value of this thing. But I actually do think that some of the other aspects partly make up for this.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
you're not subtracting the value of playing POKER with BARRY GREENSTEIN!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
-EV perhaps?
edit: I'd still do it if I had a spare 60k fpps...

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Quick bit of math, and I guess it all depends on the 'value' of Barry... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The general rule of thumb seems to be that $1 = ~62.8 fpps. (This is the value of a tourney ticket in the store - 13,500 fpps gets you a $215 tourney ticket.)

This tourney has a $6,800 prize pool, so in theory it should cost a total of 426,792 fpps.

426,792 / 8 players = 53,371.5 fpps. Not a good value at the current price of 60k.

426,792 / 7 players = 60,996 fpps. It appears that the way Stars priced it out is by looking at the people who are PAYING to play.

If Barry is not eligible for the money, the value is good.

If Barry is, however, eligible, this is not a good value - the participants are sponsoring him, not Stars.

OT

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Barry is eligible, but you forgot to add in the book, 2500?

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

60,000 fpps from the store buys you 1k travel certificate and 62k fpps gets you 1k call card which is for all intents and purposes 1k cash, those are the numbers you should use tory due to the extra value per fpp spent when you spend them in bulk. This clearly has horrible value, and I would definitely spend my points on it if it had equal value to just taking the cash for my FPP's

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
60,000 fpps from the store buys you 1k travel certificate and 62k fpps gets you 1k call card which is for all intents and purposes 1k cash, those are the numbers you should use tory due to the extra value per fpp spent when you spend them in bulk. This clearly has horrible value, and I would definitely spend my points on it if it had equal value to just taking the cash for my FPP's

[/ QUOTE ]

$1,000 card = 60,000 fpps means $1 = 60 fpps

so a $6,800 prize pool should be 408,000 FPPs total.

408,000 / 8 players = 51k each
408,000 / 7 players = 58,285 each

The book is 2k FPPs in the store (no autograph).

Long & short of it is that, assuming Barry's eligible for the $$$, the tourney is overpriced.

If Barry was NOT eligible for the $$$, and the book is worth 2k, you're getting what you pay for, and no more.

Might be worth it for the "I got to play with Barry and he gave me a signed book", but the strict numbers say skip it.

OT

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

It all comes down to what the "masterclass" part entails, if its just a 1 table horse n go with him then meh, if its talk to barry during and get indepth commentary on the replay then Im very interested.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

"The book is 2k FPPs in the store (no autograph)."


Lots of times when you order a book from the store I think you get an autograph from the author.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
"The book is 2k FPPs in the store (no autograph)."


Lots of times when you order a book from the store I think you get an autograph from the author.

[/ QUOTE ]not the case here.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
"The book is 2k FPPs in the store (no autograph)."


Lots of times when you order a book from the store I think you get an autograph from the author.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are books specifically listed as autographed - Ace on the River is not one of those books.

OT

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I had previously gotten books from the store that did not say 'atuographed' but were autographed anyway.
That was awhile ago however.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I got Ace on the River for my bro a month or so ago and it wasn't signed

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

he might have done it in invisible ink.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
he might have done it in invisible ink.

[/ QUOTE ]
You just blew my mind.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="white">he might have done it in invisible ink.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="white"> FYP </font>

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

is there any way of buying 60k ffps? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
is there any way of buying 60k ffps? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]play 20k $6.5 sngs
I heard Rainkhan can play 42 at once ooohhh aaaahhh BULLDOZER

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I agree that this is a pretty cool idea.

I also agree that the value sucks pretty bad compared to that of the other Stars tournaments.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

screw it i'm in.

dead money!

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I would play in this if the levels were longer than 6 minutes.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

6 minutes for each game actually.
Each 'level' is more like 30 minutes, isn't it?

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

from pokerstars, "Barry will be answering questions and showing his hole cards at every opportunity."

this isn't just a regular sng with a pro; it's a masterclass. you are paying a premium to be taught by barry. very good value imo.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

This is kinda grubby by Stars IMO. They should have made the prizepool more respectable. Yes I understand they are "paying" Barry for this, but it is still not right to the players, because the reason they are paying Barry is to generate publicity for the site. Because of this, this is not truly a 'service' that is offered by Barry that you are paying for, so it doesn't give Stars automatic right of way to charge for this service. We are talking in the area of $1,000 here, so its definitely not a major deal for Stars.

Stars should of paid out the money for the FPP like normal, and then paid Barry for providing publicity like normal. Instead, they let you pay for Barry (because hes Barry [censored] Greenstein) and then collected the advertising-draw for free. Why? Because they can.

This is exactly like the advertisements being used in big buyin events (WSOP, etc.), where the casino makes millions off the players, doesn't juice the pool from this, and still takes the 3% for dealers, some % for staff, more % for the casino, etc. - and it's a sin if you don't tip 5 figures to the dealers if you win!

They should have given players the fair value, and if that would lead to too many signups, anticipate a more appropriate (read: higher) buyin.

Also the structure should last 2 hours, not one. In the current structure, each "level" is 30 minutes, playing 6 minutes a game. The stack size is 150 and the stakes are 3/6, 9/18, 25/50, 50/100, so it ends really fast. The structure should have been a bit longer to give more than 1 hr with Barry.

IMO, the buyin should have been 80k FPP and pay 7k/2k/1k. It should last 2 hours. Of course none of what I said matters, because business wise Stars should just let you pay for their advertising, the same way that the companies that own WSOP let you pay for theirs.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I have to agree with Ice.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

ice et al,

the given wsop example is not analogous.

the players are getting their full value from the fpps, it's just not in straight cash. it's up to the player to decide where she wants to get her value from. this is not a regular sng with a pro. if stars were to, for example, offer a teaching opportunity with barry without a premium there is little incentive for them to make these special events. stars is a business. yes, they will get some buzz about the masterclass, but that does not mean they should be expected to not charge for it. if you want a unique learning experience with barry then you pay for it. it's silly to think stars should shoulder the bill. the player gets the benefit.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

I agree with most of what Ice said; I guess mine is a half-hearted protest since I am registered for the tourney. It's tough, because I want to do this, and clearly Stars will be able to get 7 people who want to do it, even at this price, so they don't really have a reason to make it a fairer deal. But there's also not much reason for them to give less than par value and have the tourney last one hour instead of two. It's not much of a financial difference to them to make it equivalent with other redemption methods, and there's good reason to make the experience as good as possible for the kind of players who have enough fpps to burn 60k on this.

I also understand the argument that the "Barry Greenstein service" is worth something. Given the (effectively) extra vig I'm paying, I hope that Barry puts forth max effort to help us get the most out of it. If he does, it's worth the extra vig (to me), and I assume he will.

If I had to choose between a bump in the prize pool and longer levels, I would definitely choose longer levels. There's no reason these things are mutually exclusive, but in case Stars reads this thread and doesn't want to change the prize pool, bumping it to 10 or 12 minute levels would be a huge improvement. I can't imagine Barry would object to it lasting an hour longer.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

Blinds are now 10 minutes with a $7500 prize pool.

Scotty

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
Blinds are now 10 minutes with a $7500 prize pool.

Scotty

[/ QUOTE ]&lt;3 Pokerstars
Also noticed the Grinder is registered. I guess he wants the experience of playing with Barry too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

The two changes made were a direct result of this thread. I called them and told them that the value was being questioned. I'm happy to represent PokerStars when, with one short phone call, they make the correct change to an unpopular stance.

Barry

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
The two changes made were a direct result of this thread. I called them and told them that the value was being questioned. I'm happy to represent PokerStars when, with one short phone call, they make the correct change to an unpopular stance.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the reason I pay $5000 of rake /month on stars.

Re: Barry G Masterclass HORSE tourney
 

[ QUOTE ]
The two changes made were a direct result of this thread. I called them and told them that the value was being questioned. I'm happy to represent PokerStars when, with one short phone call, they make the correct change to an unpopular stance.

Barry

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all the more impressive of Stars when you consider that the tourney was full when they decided to make the change.

OT