25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

Opponent is HomerJ82, winning party reg. Plays pretty well and probably has me as 18/15 plus or minus a few points. Think I had been more active at that table though.

$25/$50 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (<font color="#0000cc">$1384.00</font>)
UTG+1 (<font color="#0000cc">$5000.00</font>)
Hero (<font color="#0000cc">$5525.00</font>)
BTN (<font color="#0000cc">$7647.00</font>)
SB (<font color="#0000cc">$6001.00</font>)
BB (<font color="#0000cc">$2000.00</font>)

Pre-flop: ($75, 6 players) Hero is CO 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#777777">2 folds</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $175</font>, BTN calls $175, <font color="#777777">2 folds</font>

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($425, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $350</font>, BTN calls $350

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($1125, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BTN bets $700</font>, Hero calls $700

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2525, 2 players)

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

I would check here like always.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

i would make it like 1200ish and hope he pushes on your 'weak' bet, with two pairs on the board he wont call a pot size bet with much besides A high flush

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

with your image you have to check.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

i think it all depends on how you would play hands like AsKo etc here. If you would take the same line till the river then do whatever you would do with that hand. If you like making blocking bets then make a fake one here. If you never do that then go for the CR.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

fake block bet ftw... with your image I dont think there's any way you get paid on a river c/r and the way you played this, it looks like you either have a weak king, or were attempting to slowplay a flush, against both of which I feel like villain will be checking a large amount of his range behind on the river with.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

Anyone c/r turn here? I would like it a lot.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone c/r turn here? I would like it a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]Ew

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

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Anyone c/r turn here? I would like it a lot.

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wtf why?

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

i think we have to bet this river, maybe 1150.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

do people think c/c is better than betting this turn? i feel like it sets up a very passive game plan which is hard to balance effectively.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

one more vote for half pot river. and yes c/c turn is by far best.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

hate checking turn, id lead riv

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

i'd check. cause thats what is most likely to make him put more bad money in. i think.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

and also it should enable u to get to showdown with marginal holding in the future a bit easier. its hard to play against slowplayers yo.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

you have to check the river 100,000 % of the time. i can't see a decent arguement for leading here

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

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hate checking turn, id lead riv

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he'll obviously fold bluffs (i'd assume), can you think of a single hand that he would call the river with that he would not bet when checked to? i can't find one tbh

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

I'll check behind with a flush given two pair on the board, but call a raise. I vote for the 1/2 pot lead

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

This depends on villain's propensity to VB river "thin"... and also whether he shows up here much with float/fire/fire air..

Some players VB KQ here while others check back a flush..

If he's not VBing very thin and doesn't show up with air here much, I like a bet.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

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hate checking turn, id lead riv

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he'll obviously fold bluffs (i'd assume), can you think of a single hand that he would call the river with that he would not bet when checked to? i can't find one tbh

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fake block bet can induce a raise, and depending on how thin he value bets/calls down, I can see him calling with anything from a low flush to just the top pair..

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
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hate checking turn, id lead riv

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he'll obviously fold bluffs (i'd assume), can you think of a single hand that he would call the river with that he would not bet when checked to? i can't find one tbh

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fake block bet can induce a raise, and depending on how thin he value bets/calls down, I can see him calling with anything from a low flush to just the top pair..

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qft

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

I think its a check and not very close, I can't see him calling a lead very often with Kx and I can't see him checking behind the river with a flush.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
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hate checking turn, id lead riv

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he'll obviously fold bluffs (i'd assume), can you think of a single hand that he would call the river with that he would not bet when checked to? i can't find one tbh

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fake block bet can induce a raise, and depending on how thin he value bets/calls down, I can see him calling with anything from a low flush to just the top pair..

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yeah but this same logic applies to checking the river...
i think checking this river or betting it depends alot on villain

a check is obvi much better if he is more likely to call CR with a flush then he is to raise a weak lead bc we get the same value out of a good king with a bet or a CR since he isnt raising our block with AK and since he isnt calling our CR with it either

and obviously the opposite holds if he raises lighter than he calls...

i think i fall in the check river camp as a default though bc of the hands we could be CRing for value: good flushes and FHs, we shouldnt really have those in our range bc almost all of them CR the turn, therefore i could see him looking up a CR light but still almost never raising our "fake blocker" with a KX hand

also i dont like the turn check unless your CRing there which i dont like bc he prolly gets away from KX given the spade...so i think i bet turn and bet river

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

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a check is obvi much better if he is more likely to call CR with a flush then he is to raise a weak lead bc we get the same value out of a good king with a bet or a CR since he isnt raising our block with AK and since he isnt calling our CR with it either



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def dont agree with the claim that we get the same value from a good K with both a check and a lead; lead has way more value IMO..

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

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a check is obvi much better if he is more likely to call CR with a flush then he is to raise a weak lead bc we get the same value out of a good king with a bet or a CR since he isnt raising our block with AK and since he isnt calling our CR with it either



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def dont agree with the claim that we get the same value from a good K with both a check and a lead; lead has way more value IMO..

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why?????????????????

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

hes saying a king and weak flush will not always bet the river, but will call alot. also, he might try to bluff since its a scary board, but one that good players will often try and get value with AK and AA.

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
hes saying a king and weak flush will not always bet the river, but will call alot. also, he might try to bluff since its a scary board, but one that good players will often try and get value with AK and AA.

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i know what hes saying, unfortunately hes a good friend, i was just trying to get him to explain himself bc i disagree...i think enough hands that vbet turn put out another one on the river...KQ is a little thin but a flush i think is a bet...our line is pretty weak

Re: 25/50 - Turned Trips, Rivered Boat OOP
 

I really believe it matters a lot how he perceives you and your lines.. and how thin he can value bet the river.
I think standard is a smallish blocking bet on the river but c/r has it's merits if you have c/r the river frequently..
I also believe that he will call with more hands than he will valuebet with so c/r gains most of its value from pure bluffs
but I am not sure how often he is going to the river with air so this is mostly a hand that would pay off anyways
but might not always value bet the river.
Furthermore I doubt he calls the c/r often enough with hands that he would raise the river with so all combined I prefer bet/call without specific images..