78s line deep: 600NL
 

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Ultimate Bet Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($655.40)
MP ($469.05)
CO ($1242.80)
Hero ($2130.90)
SB ($1415.60)
BB ($100.75)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $21</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $78</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $57.

Flop: ($165) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($165) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($165) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $111</font>. <font color="#0000FF">Hero raises to 333</font><font color="#0000FF">, CO raises all in for 1164.8</font>

Villain is 40/26/1.55/306. I've been 3betting him a decent amount lately esp since I have position on him.

How's my line so far? At the river, is raise/fold the correct line here?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

Well played till the turn. You have to bet that. That card creates way too many draws to want to play showdown poker. Time to protect.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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Well played till the turn. You have to bet that. That card creates way too many draws to want to play showdown poker. Time to protect.

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I agree. bet the turn is good here imo.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

fold river

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I like the river raise, but I call the 3bet vs that aggressive of an opponent. Your hand strength is very well disguised; your line looks like a very weak hand.

I think villian is bluffing here a fair amt given he knows there is no way you have a flush - he knows it is unlikely that you 3bet preflop and then give up the initiative and check a flush draw twice

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

cbet flop.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

fold river surely

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

i hope the final river decision isn't the purpose of this thread. you should never ever be calling the 3-bet.

as to everything else... i'd be betting the flop, or definitely the turn. since we got to the river this way, i like the c/r, but calling is awful

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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I like the river raise, but I call the 3bet vs that aggressive of an opponent. Your hand strength is very well disguised; your line looks like a very weak hand.

I think villian is bluffing here a fair amt given he knows there is no way you have a flush - he knows it is unlikely that you 3bet preflop and then give up the initiative and check a flush draw twice

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Villain is a fish so assuming he makes those assumptions (which arent necessarily always correct) is wrong, i like raise fold on the river and c-betting or betting the turn is player dependant IMO.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

Not betting the flop is pretty bad here without a reason not too.
Once you get to the turn I like the way you played it.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

dont raise river
since you did...fold fast

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I'd bet flop and call river. I think he is bluffing lots here.

Edit: Obviously I mean call the first bet, and that the first bet is frequently a bluff. The 4-bet not so much [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

if villain is a really good thinking player...i would actually make a hero call on the river here.
if villain is a fish then meh...fold fast.
i would check the turn too.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

fwiw i would be the flop almost 100% of the time as the initial raiser with a hand like 78 that has no showdown value.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

The river raise is for value or bluff?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

this is a very confusing hand and when im confused and can beat AA i usually call. But unless this guy is crazy i think we have to fold here

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I like a call pre-flop, b/c we will be able to make him do bigger mistakes on flop and later streets.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I also think the river raise is gash

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

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The reason I don't mind a flop check is because this is a good flop for him to either bluff raise you because of the likely hood that it missed your hand as well or he likely has a hand that is willing to peel a card with while you have garbage). I also c-bet less then most on these boards and this seems like a good time to mix your play and bet ANY turn card. The fact that we hit it should not make a difference since we are folding to any c/r there regardless of us hitting the turn.

As played, I would not have raised the river bet. Fold to the shove. But if you had bet the turn, you would have gotten your desired 2 streets worth of value and not needed to force the action with this thin river raise.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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cbboy et al- why aren't we betting the flop here- do you really think his range hit this flop that hard?

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The reason I don't mind a flop check is because this is a good flop for him to either bluff raise you because of the likely hood that it missed your hand as well or he likely has a hand that is willing to peel a card with while you have garbage). I also c-bet less then most on these boards and this seems like a good time to mix your play and bet ANY turn card. The fact that we hit it should not make a difference since we are folding to any c/r there regardless of us hitting the turn.

As played, I would not have raised the river bet. Fold to the shove. But if you had bet the turn, you would have gotten your desired 2 streets worth of value and not needed to force the action with this thin river raise.

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

bet the flop, betting has way more leverage than normal because we are deep. getting bluff raised won't happen nearly as often and his range is composed of many more speculative hands (than a 100bb) that will just c/f the flop OOP.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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if villain is a really good thinking player...i would actually make a hero call on the river here.

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Even if the villain is a really good thinking player you probably would still blow off money calling the river 3bet. He isn't bluffing often enough and will often actually wake up with a flush even though he checked two streets.

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

regarding the flop check, I do agree that betting flop would be optimal. Only reason I didn't was because I 3bet him 2 times previously and took it after a c-bet and I had thrash hands then too. I felt that he would prolly bluff raise me this time so hence the check.

Turn I could see both betting and checking here. But considering that the hand checked through on the turn, isn't a river raise mandatory here? I agree that if I bet turn, I should most likely just call river.

BTW, this hand was just a line check and by no means asking for help on the river cause I believe that it's a really easy fold on the river.

Way played, I think that the river raise is quite standard, anyone wanna tell me why it's not?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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I 3bet him 2 times previously and took it after a c-bet and I had thrash hands then too. I felt that he would prolly bluff raise me this time so hence the check.

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ummm, maybe let him win a pot and don't 3bet him with 78s this time?

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

I'm raising this river vs a fish all day. I think we have to fold to the 3 bet, but I feel like there's a ton of value being left on the table by just calling the river bet

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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I 3bet him 2 times previously and took it after a c-bet and I had thrash hands then too. I felt that he would prolly bluff raise me this time so hence the check.

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ummm, maybe let him win a pot and don't 3bet him with 78s this time?

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Woah dude, are you saying that game context should be a factor when deciding to make marginal plays? Your whacky ideas will never make it here!

Re: 78s line deep: 600NL
 

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The river raise is for value or bluff?

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eh? what better hand is he ever folding? Not raising for value on river is criminal imo. I fold to the push.

With these stacks I also c-bet flop here a lot.