Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

It's unfair to other players, whether they are winners or losers. Winners end up seeing less hands and winning less. Losers want to PLAY PLAY PLAY and not wait. This is especially important to them if they are stuck badly.

Pros might feel a pressure to respond to others stalling by using their own stalling. The reason is that they will end up with a low % of tv time if they don't stall. So, with everyone stalling equally, all pros should end up with the same amount of tv time. Interestingly enough, this is the exact same result as NO ONE stalling.

So, cooperative game theory says no one should stall for tv time. Who can make this happen? Stalling is bad for everyone in the long run.
It's become bad for me too, because players in live casinos tend to unconsciously copy what they see on tv, and I see a lot of players stalling all the time in routine situations.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Maybe some kind of electric device could zap those who stall for more than 30 seconds. First friendly warning zap, then 5 seconds and turn up the amps. Then it would be more like playing online, only missing the multitabling. Who's first to implement this in tv show?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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cooperative game theory

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Oxymoron, DUCY?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

there should be a 30 second clock for all decisions...each player gets one 2 minute extension per round

its a little more tricky in cash games as sometimes people do need to make difficult decisions

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Virtually every final table player is capable of multi-tabling and playing over 200 hands per hour. Yet most final tables struggle to play 25 hands per hour. Still the onus is on the organizers to speed up the game. All FTs are shown well after the event is played. Edit out the tanks.
Preflop facing no action, 10 seconds is plenty long. Strict enforcement. Players must announce the size of the raise within 10 seconds else all raises are minimum. When facing action give them 20 seconds. Postflop give them 20 seconds.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

I'm against any automatic clock restrictions. If needed, players can call the clock. The rest of this stuff is bad for poker.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

3 seconds on each decision, if no action, hand is dead.


[x] > online pokarr.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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3 seconds on each decision, if no action, hand is dead.

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3 seconds, then dealer rolls a die. Even numbers=all in, Odd numbers=fold, 7=Jerry Yang bets a million

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

but then it also sux when u have a real tough decision, cuz everyone starts complaining calling u a staller.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Yet I still get the argument from pros like Daniel, Phil Hellmuth, and Jamie Gold that disclosing the contents of their hands and Hollywooding is "Real Poker".

Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

The stacks are shallow and they have all played 100k hands. 15 seconds is plenty of time.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Maybe some kind of electric device could zap those who stall for more than 30 seconds. First friendly warning zap, then 5 seconds and turn up the amps. Then it would be more like playing online, only missing the multitabling. Who's first to implement this in tv show?

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Tazer dat bitch!

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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cooperative game theory

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Oxymoron, DUCY?

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no, DUCY?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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All FTs are shown well after the event is played. Edit out the tanks.

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Exactly.

I'm no fan of social engineering/big brother/censorship/etc..., but if the public doesn't see it, they won't immitate it.

It'll take a while, but once people start picking up on the fact that stalling tactics won't get them anywhere, they won't abuse it.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Someone's gotta make a "i rayse ... on pont faif myllyin" with Yang on it. (Blinds at 75k/150k)

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

i dont care about the players, i care about watching more hands instead of staring at a guy for long time

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Trunk monkey?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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I'm against any automatic clock restrictions. If needed, players can call the clock. The rest of this stuff is bad for poker.

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The directors should be the police. Players shouldn't be forced to be the bad guy.
On the final table the director's got nothing else to do.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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cooperative game theory

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During the bubble there could be cooperative game theory.
Last table to finish gets penalized one BB per player.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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3 seconds on each decision, if no action, hand is dead.

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3 seconds, then dealer rolls a die. Even numbers=all in, Odd numbers=fold, 7=Jerry Yang bets a cool million

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Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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3 seconds on each decision, if no action, hand is dead.

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3 seconds, then dealer rolls a die. Even numbers=all in, Odd numbers=fold, 7=Jerry Yang bets a fat ugly asian million

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Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Most of the times they don't stall for TV time...rather just to save face in a hand to the people around them. Like gee I have a hand aka 2 3 what to do.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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cooperative game theory

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Oxymoron, DUCY?

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You are an idiot.

Oh, and the problem could be partially solved if more players had the balls to just call the clock every time. I don't think that's going to happen, however. I've played in games where people call the clock almost every time someone takes more than 10 seconds on a decision, and all it does is make a really angry table.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

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I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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cooperative game theory

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Oxymoron, DUCY?

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no, DUCY?

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LDO? really? did that really need a link?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Virtually every final table player is capable of multi-tabling and playing over 200 hands per hour.

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online poker world is an offchute of the real live poker world

don't try to bring your bastardized version to the live game.

any player at the table can call clock on anyone else.

the ME FT did more like 20 hands per hour. have you heard any of the participants complaining that too much time was taken? if not .. what the hell do you care!?

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

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I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

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horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Do it once - ok, do it twice, I'll say "nice Hollywood" - do it thrice - it's "clock, pleae" time. Then again I don't get on TV or Final Tables - lololol.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

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I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

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horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

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We worry about collusion so that the players do not have to.

Matt Savage

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

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I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

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horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

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We worry about collusion so that the players do not have to.

Matt Savage

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how is it collusion for one player to say "I have a flush"
in a HU pot?
If they are partners then they could have signals or something u couldn't detect. The rule about no card showing and no declarations of what you have HU is moronic.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

[/ QUOTE ]

We worry about collusion so that the players do not have to.

Matt Savage

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how is it collusion for one player to say "I have a flush"
in a HU pot?
If they are partners then they could have signals or something u couldn't detect. The rule about no card showing and no declarations of what you have HU is moronic.

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Because you are not heads up if there are other players in the tournament.

Matt

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

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Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

[/ QUOTE ]

We worry about collusion so that the players do not have to.

Matt Savage

[/ QUOTE ]
how is it collusion for one player to say "I have a flush"
in a HU pot?
If they are partners then they could have signals or something u couldn't detect. The rule about no card showing and no declarations of what you have HU is moronic.

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Because you are not heads up if there are other players in the tournament.

Matt

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Matt,

If they wanted to chip dump, they would. It would be very simple.
Saying "I have a flush" is part of the psychology of the game. You might say it because you think the other guy won't believe you and he will call an overbet. It doesn't hurt any other player in the tournament.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Jamie Gold and the WSOP's willingness to let him discuss hands set back poker one year as I have had to penalize players 100 times for verbally disclosing their hands and showing cards.

Matt Savage

[/ QUOTE ]

Well lose the rule then. It is retarded that you can tell lies about your hand but not the truth. (Except for situations where more than one player is in a hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess if that was a rule than I would change it.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

horrible rule anyway.

let a poker player say anything he wants to another poker player. that's poker. stop worrying about collusion. stop worrying about losers having their feelings hurt. just let the game do the work.

[/ QUOTE ]

We worry about collusion so that the players do not have to.

Matt Savage

[/ QUOTE ]
how is it collusion for one player to say "I have a flush"
in a HU pot?
If they are partners then they could have signals or something u couldn't detect. The rule about no card showing and no declarations of what you have HU is moronic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you are not heads up if there are other players in the tournament.

Matt

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Matt,

If they wanted to chip dump, they would. It would be very simple.
Saying "I have a flush" is part of the psychology of the game. You might say it because you think the other guy won't believe you and he will call an overbet. It doesn't hurt any other player in the tournament.

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a bitch always finds an excuse

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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The rule about no card showing and no declarations of what you have HU is moronic.

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Agreed, this stifles a lot of the psychological aspect of the game. Chatting up the other players and playing mind games is an intregral part of what makes poker fun. It's a shame there are rules prohibiting it, to say the least.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

For the last time, if you were allowed to show/honestly announce your hand in a tournament, then weaker players would do this constantly, especially around the bubble, to inhibit action and keep themselves alive in the tournament.

You want to Hollywood, stick to cash.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Because you are not heads up if there are other players in the tournament.

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QFT, hands don't happen in a vaccuum in tournaments to the extent that they can in cash games

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

Those not understanding the need to protect players not in the hand by having rules which prevent any potential favoring or influencing of players in the hand need to rethink it.

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

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Those not understanding the need to protect players not in the hand by having rules which prevent any potential favoring or influencing of players in the hand need to rethink it.

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or maybe you could elaborate

Re: Stalling for tv time is really bad for poker
 

The short version of my answer would be "any rules or non rules that make it easier for a player/s to exert undue influence over a tournament outcome regardless of their intentions are probably bad for the game."

A benign example would be a bubble situation where showing a card and annoucing your actual holding heads up is the only reason your opponent properly folds where he would have otherwise busted.
The tangible person hurt by those actions is the person who ends up bubbling. But the layers of harm to the actual outcome of the tourney go deeper.
Assuming it was without malevolence- say I decided to be sporting to Snowball on the bubble because i liked the table banter or something- I now have influenced the outcome of the tournament where I wasn't able to beforehand.

Now realize that allowing those actions in any heads up pot legitimizes any open collusion/soft playing or malevolence that way.