$225: post flop part 2
 

Villain is 33/25 after 10 hands. How bad did I do?

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t1480)
UTG+1 (t1455)
MP1 (t425)
MP2 (t2105)
Hero (t1395)
Button (t2750)
SB (t1370)
BB (t2520)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, BB calls t100

Flop: (t325) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t325) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets t200</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to t600</font>, <font color="gray">Hero folds</font>

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

I like flop and turn, I would be really tempted to shove over his turn c/r since it looks so fos and the board is so drawy.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

This is a pretty weird thing to do by the villain (c/r turn when there has been no bet on the flop and there are two possible flush draws on the turn). Maybe villain noticed you were doing delayed c/bets to steal pots, and this is a bluff. Or possibly he's on a draw and wants to disguise it (if you check he gets a free card/if you bet, you probably haven't got a King - therefore a decent size raise will get you off the hand). For some reason the draw makes the most sense to me, although I wouldn't be sure of anything.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like flop and turn, I would be really tempted to shove over his turn c/r since it looks so fos and the board is so drawy.

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Not too FPSy for a SNG?

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

I would fold preflop against a 30/25 in BB.

I like the flop check and turn bet and I don't think you can do anything but fold after he rr.
So maybe checking again on the turn and c/c most rivers is best.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like flop and turn, I would be really tempted to shove over his turn c/r since it looks so fos and the board is so drawy.

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Not too FPSy for a SNG?

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It is, IMO.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I like flop and turn, I would be really tempted to shove over his turn c/r since it looks so fos and the board is so drawy.

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Not too FPSy for a SNG?

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It is, IMO.

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Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

I like rex's line here. I am never opening this light early on, but maybe since it's a higher buyin sng where opponents are presumably more observant, you have to vary play and open lighter to get more action on other premium hands. If that's the reason for raising pre then I think it's ok. I think we just have to muck the turn.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

First of all, the stats really mean nothing over 10 hands. You can't rely on 10 hands of data at all unless he has VPIP 50+. I bet the flop. As played, his raise is definitely suspicious, but he could be doing this with a 5 or a 'monster' AK. I don't think this is the right time to get tricky.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

Preflop is standard here. There is nothing FPSY about the turn if you have the best hand a lot get it in. There are spots where people have TPTK and will have similar equity and people say shove, just because your hand doesn't fall in a specific value doesn't make it too fpsy.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

I thought QJ in the CO was a pretty standard fold in the 9mans with loose blinds? I also would bet the flop t175ish. As played I can't pull a pudge here, I'd fold.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

I wasn't that clear in my earlier post, a play being too FPSY isn't a good reason to not make it. If you were to argue that his turn range is beating you that is a good argument, but it being too fpsy is not a good reason.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

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I thought QJ in the CO was a pretty standard fold in the 9mans with loose blinds? I also would bet the flop t175ish. As played I can't pull a pudge here, I'd fold.

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i'd have to agree here.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I like flop and turn, I would be really tempted to shove over his turn c/r since it looks so fos and the board is so drawy.

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Not too FPSy for a SNG?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. It's a pity we have so few hands on him. If we'd played more, I'd very much like pudge's thinking.

A paired board, you didn't bet flop. Looks a ton like a delayed cbet and quite a lot of LAGgy types will have a pop here. Actually, at the lower end, they'll have a pop here just because the board paired and they think you'll think they're repping the five because they are in the blind.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

Reshoving the turn still seems a little crazy for me but I can see how it's good.
The QJs CO raise seems REALLY standard to me. Offsuit I can find a fold sometimes.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

Darin you realize if this board was JJK5 two flushdraws and you had AK your hand would be more or less the same.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

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Darin you realize if this board was JJK5 two flushdraws and you had AK your hand would be more or less the same.

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I'm not fully grasping this. In my hand I have "middle pair" and in your hand I have "top pair." In my hand I'm pretty much only beating a bluff but your hand I'm at least beating a few other TPWK or 5 combos. Any other way of getting this through my pea brain?

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

Yeah I don't understand that either.

Re: $225: post flop part 2
 

Darin,
You shouldn't be thinking of your hand in terms of "midpair/topair" you should think about villains range.
If the board was Kh 5d Jh Jd and he c/red the turn is range of better hands would be complete air, semi bluffs, and jacks rarely Kx. Similarly on this board his range is air, semi bluffs and kings. So AK on the first board is very similar to QJ on this board. I'm still not sure what is best since his line is so weird, but I haven't heard any particularly good arguments for folding just "It's too FPSY to get all in because you only have middle pair'