What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

I'm thinking of moving up, but don't know what to expect from the 2/5 game. All responses welcome.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

The whole world doesn't play NL, please clarify in the future. Also discuss the card rooms you generally play in, the game structures will make a huge difference. You will get much better responses if you take my advice.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

There are in general two primary differences between 1/2 or 1/3 and 2/5...

1) The ratio of really bad players to players that have a clue is smaller. While it is common to only have one or two "skilled" players at a 1/2 table, you will see 2-5 on a 2/5 table.

2) You play with $5 chips instead of $1 chips, at least when posting the blinds. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

You typically will not switch between looking for solid players to looking for fish/soft spots until you reach 10/20 NL.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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There are in general two primary differences between 1/2 or 1/3 and 2/5...

1) The ratio of really bad players to players that have a clue is smaller. While it is common to only have one or two "skilled" players at a 1/2 table, you will see 2-5 on a 2/5 table.

2) You play with $5 chips instead of $1 chips, at least when posting the blinds. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

You typically will not switch between looking for solid players to looking for fish/soft spots until you reach 10/20 NL.

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arent all low limit NL games played with $5 chips.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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There are in general two primary differences between 1/2 or 1/3 and 2/5...

1) The ratio of really bad players to players that have a clue is smaller. While it is common to only have one or two "skilled" players at a 1/2 table, you will see 2-5 on a 2/5 table.

2) You play with $5 chips instead of $1 chips, at least when posting the blinds. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

You typically will not switch between looking for solid players to looking for fish/soft spots until you reach 10/20 NL.

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arent all low limit NL games played with $5 chips.

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Thats why location is important. 1/2 or 1/3 games in Los Angeles are $1 chip games. Yellow ($5) games start at 2/3 blinds and above. 10/20 NL are played with brown $10 chips.

Because of buy in caps a 2/5 in Vegas will play far tougher than a 2/3 or 3/5 game in LA.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

In Vegas, all but one 1/2NL game is a red chip game (even the $50 max at Luxor is a red chip game). There is only one white chip NL game in town (Fiesta Henderson).

Outside of Vegas, though, some houses do some wierd stuff (like the $100 max white chip game at Morongo).

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

The TAGs will be better, but that doesnt mean theyre more of them at the table. Generally the games in AC are a lot more loose and somewhat more aggro. Youre going to see a lot more gambling tourists at 2/5 since buying in for $200-300 seems small but the possibility of losing a grand at 5/10 is somewhat daunting. They go inbetween and choose 2/5.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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The TAGs will be better, but that doesnt mean theyre more of them at the table. Generally the games in AC are a lot more loose and somewhat more aggro. Youre going to see a lot more gambling tourists at 2/5 since buying in for $200-300 seems small but the possibility of losing a grand at 5/10 is somewhat daunting. They go inbetween and choose 2/5.

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That's exactly right for AC...just more people willing to gamble it up who are not afraid to put their whole stack in the middle

they players are still horrible, there will be a few decent regulars, but you can figure out who they are rather quickly and then just stay out of their way

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

I'm going to disagree with the majority here: I actually think this is a big step. In fact I'd go so far as to say that its the second biggest skill jump behind only the jump from $5/10 to $10/20 or $10/25(the reason for this is that at many places $10/20 is the lowest stakes NL game to not cap the buy ins, which of course attracts more good players).

At $1/2 I've seen people raise 15 BBs preflop when its been folded around to them. At $1/2 I've seen people go all in blind for their entire stacks. At $1/2 I've seen people get so drunk that the casino has kicked them out. At $1/2 I've seen someone intentionally show their hand on the flop when theres tons of cash behind both players just so they can "get a read on their opponent."

I havn't seen any of this at $2/5. Now $2/5 is definitely beatable. But I'd say that $2/5 is actually "real poker." While they are bad at real poker, most everyone there actually tries to win and isn't just playing to have fun.

Although rare, its possible to have 5 or even more very good opponents at $2/5.

If its your first attempt, I would definitely practice good table selection.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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I'm going to disagree with the majority here: I actually think this is a big step. In fact I'd go so far as to say that its the second biggest skill jump behind only the jump from $5/10 to $10/20 or $10/25(the reason for this is that at many places $10/20 is the lowest stakes NL game to not cap the buy ins, which of course attracts more good players).

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In Vegas, I think that jump takes place at 5/10. Possibly because not many casinos even have games over 2/5.

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At $1/2 I've seen people raise 15 BBs preflop when its been folded around to them. At $1/2 I've seen people go all in blind for their entire stacks. At $1/2 I've seen people get so drunk that the casino has kicked them out. At $1/2 I've seen someone intentionally show their hand on the flop when theres tons of cash behind both players just so they can "get a read on their opponent."

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I've never seen that at 1/2. But then I don't know anybody that dates strippers either. Oh, wait. I do. But he doesn't play poker.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

Where do you play?

1/2 vs 2/5 at foxwoods: 2/5 has tighter pre and post flop play and 3-6 players trying to make money vs 1-3 at 1/2. More preflop reraises at 2/5 with thought behind them. More money on the table at 2/5, more nits as well. The higher 1/2 buy in has helped the 1/2 game. Some arrogant players at 2/5 vs clowns at 1/2.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

Eh about a year and a half ago when i used to play the 40NL at the Bike. I saw a player lay down a set of 8s on the flop. There was a possible straight on the board and a flush draw. Someone raised his flop bet and layed it down. Suprise the whole table and he obviously made the wrong play. Anyway one table can be quite different from another table no matter the stakes.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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If its your first attempt, I would definitely practice good table selection.

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DING! That's about what I was going to say. Table selection at 1/2 is pretty unimportant since 9 out of 10 tables are good to great. If a 1/2 table is tight and rocky, give it an hour and it'll change complexion. Rarely do I find myself looking around the room wondering if there's a better 1/2 table. That's not true of 2/5. It's easy to find yourself at a 2/5 table with several very good players and no real fish at all. At those tables my win rate is lower than at 1/2--why sit and fight for $10/hr at a tough 2/5 table when there are juicy 1/2 games to be had? But a good 2/5 table is a dream--if you can find a 2/5 table with the same sorta makeup as an average 1/2 table, jump on it.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

What about places like the Bellagio where 2/5 is the lowest game in the room? Still tough-ish?

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

What about places like the Bellagio where 2/5 is the lowest game in the room? Still tough-ish?

The Bellagio had a 1-2 game last week when I visited there.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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At $1/2 I've seen people raise 15 BBs preflop when its been folded around to them. At $1/2 I've seen people go all in blind for their entire stacks. At $1/2 I've seen people get so drunk that the casino has kicked them out. At $1/2 I've seen someone intentionally show their hand on the flop when theres tons of cash behind both players just so they can "get a read on their opponent."



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The funny thing is i've seen all those things more than once at a 10/20nl game... except for the exposed cards with money behind...

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

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The Bellagio had a 1-2 game last week when I visited there.

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Really? This is news to me. Anyone else? Is this standard now?

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

I second Bavs opinion.
I also think that table selection is critical as long the player makes the necessary profitable changes in his game play.
In other words you need a decent understanding of strategy and tactical concepts for given game with an ability to implement them.
This a very good thread for players ready to move to the next level.
I agree with Bev that the 1/2 games are real money makers and scratching out a lower profit at 2/5 is unnecessary if 1/2 games are +ev.
I play for profit in the best game going for my goal whether its 2/5 or 1/2.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

So is it pretty much accepted that you can make the same hourly rate at 1/3 that you could at 2/5, in general? Not taking into account a very juicy 2/5 table. Also, at what limit would one see a jump in their winrate, assuming it's a good winning player. Would their 1/3 hourly rate still be comparable to a 2/5 or 5/10 winrate?

I'm mainly asking about L.A. area casinos if anyone has any knowledge on them. I've only played the 1/3 but was thinking of taking a shot at the 2/5, and I've looked at some other games as well(like the 5/5 300-500 at the Bike, if they still have it).

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

Kind of a general question, but how hard do you all think it would be for a primarily limit hold'em player who has dabbled in a little NL online to play in these 1/2 or 2/5 games in Vegas and do well? Assume a decent mid-limit player. Any advice would be appreciated too. My B/M NL experience is basically zero, so any tips particular to live play would be great. I realize there have been threads on this type of topic in the past, but I suck at searching.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

Timing is very important for NL. Around 1 p.m. on weekdays, most 2/5 NL games suck in Vegas. That same poker room on Friday and Saturday nights at 11 p.m. will be kickin' with calling stations.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

I think the biggest difference if comfort level. The 2/5 games are very serious with 400 raises/reraises whereas the 1/2 games, you can make a serious point with 75 buck raises.

I know this is obvious, but at the lower levels, level of comfort is an underrated consideration. After playing 2/5, I have noticed a serious difference in how my opponents view me. Now that 100 dollar raises are par for the course for me, my opponents are far less likely to play back at me because they know they can't drive me off a hand. I had two people tell me that yesterday alone.

I would move up to 2/5 until you feel comfortable, and then move back and forth to 1/2 wherever you feel the money is best.

Re: What\'s the biggest difference between 2/5 and 1/2?
 

Comfort level is a good point, a serious pot in 2/5 NL can have $1k in it with $300 and $400 bets being routinely placed. Some people in 1/2 become "serious" about pots where $215 is in the center and top pr/marginal kick battles against top pr/no kick.

It's more likely you will see higher levels of donk talk at 1/2 tables. People parroting stuff they hear off ESPN, people poorly analyzing hands, people making it evident they've never played before. In other words, easier to spot potential victims.

Last thing I would say is that in 1/2 NL, preflop raises designed to thin the field are usually much higher in relation to the BB amount. $12-$15 is likely the average serious hand open in many 1/2 games, and even this results in five or six way pots at times.