LT AP\'s MVP
 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...&type=lgns

No suprise here at all.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

I still think this was a bad choice. Manning is the single most valuable player in the NFL by a long ways... and this year he did nothing but further prove that.

The only reason I really don't mind this choice is because by giving the award to LT2, you are giving it to his offense as a whole. Their rushing game has been sick and Neal and the SD OL should be getting way more recognition then they are... As a former OL (albiet only in HS) you know that when your RB is breaking off huge runs, it means you are doing your job. Giving the MVP award to LT2 is pretty much the only way to recognize what Neal and the SD OL did this year. LT2 should seriously be taking Neal and his OL out for the most expensive dinner in SD tonight!

Good article over on Fox Sports about how Manning should be MVP

Manning DPAR: Passing 175, Rushing 4.6
Bulger DPAR: Passing 108.8, had less then 10 rushes
Brees DPAR: Passing 106, Rushing -7.7.
Tomlinson DPAR: Rushing 52.9, Recieving 9.4

No one is close.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

I'm not saying it was the right thing, just no suprise based on last years vote. Manning did just about all he could do. He did struggle for a couple of weeks in the middle to late season.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

He may have had a "rough" stretch, but even if you only count the last 6 games of the year I would bet that he would deserve the MVP.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Can we please stop calling him LT2, and just go with LT?

I hate the LT2 name, and LT1 is a crackhead.

LaDanian Tomlinson = LT and that is all. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Wasn't he just a coke head? Big difference...

How about LDT?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Wasn't he just a coke head? Big difference...

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both

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How about LDT?

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LDT>LT>LT2

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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I hate the LT2 name, and LT1 was a better, more important football player.

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I think "LDT" is the best choice but, whatever happens, "LT" is spoken for.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Oh, and Manning should have won, but Tomlinson is a fine pick, too. It's certainly better than Alexander was last year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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Umm.. No.

Think about it this way: Would you rather have Peyton Manning on your team this season knowing how it would end up, or LaDanian Tomlinson?

If you are most teams in the league, if you had the choice, would you take LDT or Peyton Manning?

Unless you already have Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Drew Brees or Marc Bulger, I don't see how the answer isn't Peyton Manning.

As of now, Peyton Manning deserves about 4 MVP's. He only has 2.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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Last year Neil Rackers had a historically good year for a kicker he should have been MVP last year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

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You do not know what historical means.

He scored 28 rushing TDs. 31 Total TDs. He had 1800+ yards. Peyton had a fantastic season. LT had a record-breaking, historical season.

LT for MVP by far, it's not even close.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

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You do not know what historical means.

He scored 28 rushing TDs. 31 Total TDs. He had 1800+ yards. Peyton had a fantastic season. LT had a record-breaking, historical season.

LT for MVP by far, it's not even close.

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I do. It will be written down as the most TDs scored in one season, which will be a nice footnote. But who knows how long it will last. After look what has happened to that record over the past decade it loses it's importance.

It's that term "it's not close" is retarded in this situatuion. There are a lot of players who have done great things for their teams this year. Manning being much more important to his team. I mean christ, why the [censored] would you use that term in this instance? It just smacks of arrogant stupidity.

Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Manning is the best QB by a lot. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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Just needed to add that in there.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

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You do not know what historical means.

He scored 28 rushing TDs. 31 Total TDs. He had 1800+ yards. Peyton had a fantastic season. LT had a record-breaking, historical season.

LT for MVP by far, it's not even close.

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I do. It will be written down as the most TDs scored in one season, which will be a nice footnote. But who knows how long it will last. After look what has happened to that record over the past decade it loses it's importance.

It's that term "it's not close" is retarded in this situatuion. There are a lot of players who have done great things for their teams this year. Manning being much more important to his team. I mean christ, why the [censored] would you use that term in this instance? It just smacks of arrogant stupidity.

Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you're saying that no one but a QB should be able to win MVP since QB is the most important position?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you are saying the MVP award should be SOLELY for QB's.

Even if LaDanian rushes for 2500 yards next season, receives 1000 yards, and scores a total of 40 TD's. If Manning goes 4,500 with 30/10, he should win without giving any consideration to LDT?

That is weird.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

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You do not know what historical means.

He scored 28 rushing TDs. 31 Total TDs. He had 1800+ yards. Peyton had a fantastic season. LT had a record-breaking, historical season.

LT for MVP by far, it's not even close.

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I do. It will be written down as the most TDs scored in one season, which will be a nice footnote. But who knows how long it will last. After look what has happened to that record over the past decade it loses it's importance.

It's that term "it's not close" is retarded in this situatuion. There are a lot of players who have done great things for their teams this year. Manning being much more important to his team. I mean christ, why the [censored] would you use that term in this instance? It just smacks of arrogant stupidity.

Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you're saying that no one but a QB should be able to win MVP since QB is the most important position?

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It would take a combination of poor play from NFL QBs and extremely high quality play from a another position. Running back is not a position that is on the list for discussion for that type of scenario.

No one aside from Manning should win the MVP during this era.

B
 

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anyone saying Manning should win the MVP is a crackhead, LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB. Manning had another Manning season, very good, but nowhere near historical.

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He beat a year old record. Not that historical. People just get used to how good manning is.

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You do not know what historical means.

He scored 28 rushing TDs. 31 Total TDs. He had 1800+ yards. Peyton had a fantastic season. LT had a record-breaking, historical season.

LT for MVP by far, it's not even close.

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I do. It will be written down as the most TDs scored in one season, which will be a nice footnote. But who knows how long it will last. After look what has happened to that record over the past decade it loses it's importance.

It's that term "it's not close" is retarded in this situatuion. There are a lot of players who have done great things for their teams this year. Manning being much more important to his team. I mean christ, why the [censored] would you use that term in this instance? It just smacks of arrogant stupidity.

Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you're saying that no one but a QB should be able to win MVP since QB is the most important position?

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It would take a combination of poor play from NFL QBs and extremely high quality play from a another position. Running back is not a position that is on the list for discussion for that type of scenario.

No one aside from Manning should win the MVP during this era.

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You're an idiot. Find me a winning team without a good RB and a stellar QB.

Re: B
 

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You're an idiot. Find me a winning team without a good RB and a stellar QB.

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A winning team? There are a lot of play off teams this year. Chicago bears have a good RB and a mediocre QB.

How about super bowl champions? Well the Steelers won with a good RB, not stellar QB. 2003 bucs had neither. Same with the baltimore ravens. What is your point?

Re: B
 

I'm not suprised that Tomlinson won. I'm surprised that he got so many votes.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you are saying the MVP award should be SOLELY for QB's.

Even if LaDanian rushes for 2500 yards next season, receives 1000 yards, and scores a total of 40 TD's. If Manning goes 4,500 with 30/10, he should win without giving any consideration to LDT?

That is weird.

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When and if LDT starts averaging 6 YPC and getting consistent gains with it, we can start talking. If his line sucked instead of being one of the best in the league, then we could talk. If he could carry the ball 500 times, then we could talk.

Also note Peyton Manning throws the ball 200 more times than LDT runs it, and LDT catches the ball 80 times.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Manning is the best QB. QB is the most important position, what is so hard for people to comprehend? RB is no where near the top in terms of importance in football positions.

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So you are saying the MVP award should be SOLELY for QB's.

Even if LaDanian rushes for 2500 yards next season, receives 1000 yards, and scores a total of 40 TD's. If Manning goes 4,500 with 30/10, he should win without giving any consideration to LDT?

That is weird.

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Yeah, when that happens cool. He deserves the MVP. It will be like when the RB on my madden team deserves the MVP. When you can rush for 3k yards you're the MVP. But, we are talking about reality.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

I think I get it.

Running backs are a non-factor in the game of football and should be eliminated.

Thanks for opening up my eyes.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Can we please stop calling him LT2, and just go with LT?

I hate the LT2 name, and LT1 is a crackhead.

LaDanian Tomlinson = LT and that is all. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Bit of a hijack, but if you were starting a team, which LT would you take assuming they are each in their prime. I go with LT the first, and it's not even close.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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I think I get it.

Running backs are a non-factor in the game of football and should be eliminated.

Thanks for opening up my eyes.

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No. Running backs are a very dependant and replaceable position. The difference between an elite RB and a average one is much smaller than the difference between an elite QB and an average QB.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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I think I get it.

Running backs are a non-factor in the game of football and should be eliminated.

Thanks for opening up my eyes.

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I think fantasy football has put running backs on more of a pedestal than they deserve.

Re: B
 

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You're an idiot. Find me a winning team without a good RB and a stellar QB.

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Are you joking??

Saints Pats Jets Colts for starters.

Re: B
 

Guys, just because Running game = Valuable, != RB = Valuable.


RB is one of the most replaceable positions in the NFL and therefore a great RB will find it very difficult to be anywhere nearly as valuable as a good QB.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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I think I get it.

Running backs are a non-factor in the game of football and should be eliminated.

Thanks for opening up my eyes.

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Running back is probably the most overrated position in football, but that doesn't make it unimportant. Consider this, Peyton passed the ball 557 times this season and LDT touched the ball just over 400 times. If you were to assume Peyton was going to gain the same number of yards per attempt that LDT does per touch, Peyton would obviously be more important because LDT only gets 70% as many touches. Now if you add factor in the extra 2+ yards per touch Peyton gets, its just not close anymore.

Obviously I'm over simplifying the argument by ignoring things like turnovers, first-downs and touchdowns... but this is the easiest way to explain why it is so hard for a non-QB to deserve MVP.

If you want to take things like turnovers/first downs/touchdowns into account, you can go over to footballoutsiders.com and look at their DPAR (Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement) numbers. Its no surprise that Peyton's is about 3 times higher then LDT.

That stat is determined on a play by play analysis of the season and takes all those things in to account. It is saying that replacing Peyton with a replacement level QB would cost your offense 3 times as many points over the coarse of this season as replacing LDT with a replacement level running back would.

And if that seems completely counter-intuitive to you, you probably aren't watching close enough when you watch the NFL or are completely blinded by sports center and fantasy football.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Jeff Garcia thinks you can just stick an aging replacement QB in for a superstar QB, and nothing really changes. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

I think an RB's relative value goes up on a team that is really good, and a QB's relative value goes up on a team that is bad.

This is because on a winning team, you will often times have the lead, and need to eat up the clock with a good, reliable RB who can hold onto the ball late.

On a bad team, you are often behind, and thus, are required to pass more to catch up, and are rarely dependent on eating clock. This is where your QB is way way more valuable than your RB. I think on a very good team, the gap is far far less.

You have to factor in that on a winning team, it is sort of a given that both the RB and the QB will already be good players, though.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Jeff Garcia thinks you can just stick an aging replacement QB in for a superstar QB, and nothing really changes. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Not sure if you're being sarcastic. But he has been a pro-bowl QB on the 49ers. Also we can ignore the detroit year since...well detroit is a black hole.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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I think an RB's relative value goes up on a team that is really good, and a QB's relative value goes up on a team that is bad.

This is because on a winning team, you will often times have the lead, and need to eat up the clock with a good, reliable RB who can hold onto the ball late.

On a bad team, you are often behind, and thus, are required to pass more to catch up, and are rarely dependent on eating clock. This is where your QB is way way more valuable than your RB. I think on a very good team, the gap is far far less.

You have to factor in that on a winning team, it is sort of a given that both the RB and the QB will already be good players, though.

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Guys, just because Running game = Valuable, != RB = Valuable.

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Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Guys, just because Running game = Valuable, != RB = Valuable.

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I'm sort of designating the RB as the "running game". I wasn't trying to imply that an RB isn't dependent on a good line. But a good QB is helped drastically by a good O-line as well.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Guys, just because Running game = Valuable, != RB = Valuable.

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I'm sort of designating the RB as the "running game". I wasn't trying to imply that an RB isn't dependent on a good line. But a good QB is helped drastically by a good O-line as well.

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QB is far less dependent on O-Line and WR than RB is on blocking.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Guys, just because Running game = Valuable, != RB = Valuable.

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I'm sort of designating the RB as the "running game". I wasn't trying to imply that an RB isn't dependent on a good line. But a good QB is helped drastically by a good O-line as well.

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So your counter argument to the "LT doesn't deserve to be MVP" argument is "But 8 players are more valuable than 1 player!"?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Wasn't he just a coke head? Big difference...

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both

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How about LDT?

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LDT>LT>LT2

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Or LTD for LT and TDs

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB.

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Priest Holmes and Marshall Faulk have had better seasons in the last 10 years alone.