mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9795510-38.html

Send an email supporting gun rights? Off to the gulag!

[ QUOTE ]
A Minnesota university has suspended one of its graduate students who sent two e-mail messages to school officials supporting gun rights.

Hamline University also said that master's student Troy Scheffler, who owns a firearm, would be barred from campus and must receive a mandatory "mental health evaluation" after he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="white"> (now cue phil, dvaut, etc chanting "ZOMG MISLEADING TITLE") </font>

In the school's defense, the student is probably a racist and has somewhat questionable grammar.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9795510-38.html

Send an email supporting gun rights? Off to the gulag!

[ QUOTE ]
A Minnesota university has suspended one of its graduate students who sent two e-mail messages to school officials supporting gun rights.

Hamline University also said that master's student Troy Scheffler, who owns a firearm, would be barred from campus and must receive a mandatory "mental health evaluation" after he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="white"> (now cue phil, dvaut, etc chanting "ZOMG MISLEADING TITLE") </font>

In the school's defense, the student is probably a racist and has somewhat questionable grammar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a surprise this is a misleading title. It may be true, but the article is unclear. He was suspended but the university cannot say what it was for due to privacy laws. Wouldn't surprise me if it went either way, but there is unfortunately not enough evidence to be sure either way.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

As a bad speller, I fear a slippery slope.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
As a bad speller, I fear a slippery slope.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you are going to explain to someone why should be allowed to bear arms on campus, I think we can all agree that room for ambiguity is a bad thing.

Not a reflection on the OP really, but a reflection on that would be that I think unis are a little jumpy these days. If they get some kind of incident where it is dug up that they had any kind of 'hint' (with hindsight added ofcourse), a lot of people's careers are toast.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

They're not sending him to the Gulag. You and other ACists are very quick to use words without much care to their meaning. Do you know what the Gulag was? Suspending a student or getting a student a mental health evaluation is not the Gulag.

Further, this kid needs a mental health evaluation and should have been suspended. Consider:

"there may be people on the edge ready to snap. I cant say I blame them, I myself am tired of having to pay my own extremely overpriced tuition to make up for minorities not paying theirs. On top of that, I am sick of seeing them held to a different standard than the white students (Of course its a lower and more lenient standard)."

This is a kid who "can't blame" other people on the edge who might snap. He insinuates that he is one of them, as he follows that comment with "I myself . . ." And then he follows that with "On top of that . . ."; in other words, he is beyond ready to snap. He is a racist with guns ready to snap.

His second email confirms this:

"I was wondering why a swastika painted by some frustrated ladies in their bathroom turned somehow into red flags of a hate crime"

Somehow? This kid needs to be kicked out of the university: "More people than you can imagine are tired of this all. It’s just sad that they resort to petty vandalism rather than speak their mind like I am."

Note I said kicked out of the university. Not sent to the Gulag.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

I think it should also be pointed out that this is a private university.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

r u kidding there's a bill in congress to do this for every american. most veterans will be disallowed guns, or at least a good portion of them, if they've ever had PTSD or collapsed in combat or something.

what, you think habeus corpus gets wiped out and they let you keep your guns?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

Meh. Surely you agree that a private institution should be able to do whatever the hell they want, and if they want to make the mistake of requiring a student to take a mental health exam for no good reason, then they will suffer their own consequences.

I agree this is probably a ridiculous decision by the school though. But, I don't think there's much more to it than that, and the evidence that our society has grown irrationally fearful of guns.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

I don't think this had anything to do with guns folks. It has to do with the kid appearing deranged.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

Speaking of deranged:

A clip from http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/11/student.arsenal.ap/index.html:

PLYMOUTH MEETING, Pennsylvania (AP) -- A home-schooled teenager who felt bullied amassed a cache of guns, knives and hand grenades and tried to recruit another boy for a possible school attack, authorities said Thursday.

The 14-year-old was taken into custody after police searched his bedroom in a Philadelphia suburb on Wednesday evening. He had talked about mounting a Columbine-type attack at Plymouth Whitemarsh High School, authorities said.

The weapons included a 9mm assault rifle that the teenager's mother had recently bought for him, Montgomery County District Attorney Bruce L. Castor Jr. said. Prosecutors are reviewing her actions.

---------------------------------------------

HIS MOTHER BOUGHT HIM A 9 MM ASSAULT RIFLE??!??!?!??

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Meh. Surely you agree that a private institution should be able to do whatever the hell they want

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course!

And they should be open to criticism for such actions, including the use of hyperbole.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Meh. Surely you agree that a private institution should be able to do whatever the hell they want

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course!

And they should be open to criticism for such actions, including the use of hyperbole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. Was just making sure we were on the same page, because I think others assumed you were trying to make a point against the state, when really you were just pointing out an odd decision.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
HIS MOTHER BOUGHT HIM A 9 MM ASSAULT RIFLE??!??!?!??

[/ QUOTE ]

forget about that, I can see how it *can* happen. what about the grenades! how does *anyone* get a grenade, let alone a 14 year old.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HIS MOTHER BOUGHT HIM A 9 MM ASSAULT RIFLE??!??!?!??

[/ QUOTE ]

forget about that, I can see how it *can* happen. what about the grenades! how does *anyone* get a grenade, let alone a 14 year old.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.instructables.com/id/HIGH...nade/?ALLSTEPS

O_o

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.instructables.com/id/HIGH...nade/?ALLSTEPS

O_o

[/ QUOTE ]

first time I've actually hoped for a rickroll

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9795510-38.html

Send an email supporting gun rights? Off to the gulag!

[ QUOTE ]
A Minnesota university has suspended one of its graduate students who sent two e-mail messages to school officials supporting gun rights.

Hamline University also said that master's student Troy Scheffler, who owns a firearm, would be barred from campus and must receive a mandatory "mental health evaluation" after he sent an e-mail message arguing that law-abiding students should be able to carry firearms on campus for self-defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color="white"> (now cue phil, dvaut, etc chanting "ZOMG MISLEADING TITLE") </font>

In the school's defense, the student is probably a racist and has somewhat questionable grammar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why is this thread title and OP ok? Are the rules different this week?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
http://www.instructables.com/id/HIGH...nade/?ALLSTEPS

O_o



first time I've actually hoped for a rickroll

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, the article didn't say improvised grenades, but maybe they meant that. honestly those looked way more accident scary than assault scary.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
http://www.instructables.com/id/HIGH...nade/?ALLSTEPS

O_o



first time I've actually hoped for a rickroll

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know, the article didn't say improvised grenades, but maybe they meant that. honestly those looked way more accident scary than assault scary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just went into google and typed "I want to build a grenade". I'm sure that there are better sources out there. In the article they did say that one was functional and the other were still being assembled, so I don't think that he just got em off the net or anything.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it should also be pointed out that this is a private university.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Further, this kid needs a mental health evaluation and should have been suspended.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
in other words, he is beyond ready to snap. He is a racist with guns ready to snap.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, gun nuts scare me. Period.

I am a student at Hamline. I also have direct personal knowledge of Troy Scheffler's behavior. He made a big stink about his gun rights last year, even managing to get an article about himself in City Pages, a very popular free newpaper in the Twin Cities, here:

http://www.citypages.com/databank/28...ticle15402.asp

This man is severely unbalanced. His public comments in addition to the content of his emails to university administration are unnerving to say the least. He is also suspected of being the culprit behind some racist graffiti found in a residence hall last year (I kind of doubt this, but it says a lot about a guy when we hear that someone wrote something about "[censored]" in a res hall bathroom and everyone's first thought is "It's probably Troy Scheffler").

I'm glad the administration did what it did. I feel safer. Furthermore, this is a private institution and they can do pretty much whatever they damn well please. In this case, I'm really glad they don't have to worry about violating this guy's rights in order to keep him off campus. And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

EDIT: This is also a ridiculous thread. We're essentially talking about a private institution that is doing something that is completely within it's rights in order to protect the student body and all others on campus to the best of their ability. If this thread even had a place it would belong in the "Crazy Bigot News and the Almost As Crazy Wingnuts That Defend Them Forum" but unfortunately no such thing exists.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Same, but I wouldn't want *this* guy carrying a gun around.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain the relative lack of similiar events in other countries?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain the relative lack of similiar events in other countries?

[/ QUOTE ]

the crazy asian guy came here and killed people instead of doing it back in tha mothaland?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it should also be pointed out that this is a private university.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not start holding the utopians to their own standards now.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain the relative lack of similiar events in other countries?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, non sequitur.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I was wondering why a swastika painted by some frustrated ladies in their bathroom turned somehow into red flags of a hate crime"

Somehow? This kid needs to be kicked out of the university: "More people than you can imagine are tired of this all. It’s just sad that they resort to petty vandalism rather than speak their mind like I am."

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to ask about the somehow you should quote what he says next also. He said something about someone shooting people because "he hates them" is not a hate crime.

This guy doesn't seem so bright, but there is nothing in these emails that would indicate he needs a mental health evaluation.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
HIS MOTHER BOUGHT HIM A 9 MM ASSAULT RIFLE??!??!?!??

[/ QUOTE ]
Tom, what do you think an "assault rifle" is?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
This guy doesn't seem so bright, but there is nothing in these emails that would indicate he needs a mental health evaluation.

[/ QUOTE ]

you don't seem to realize the revenue this guy would generate if he could be gotten into the "system". any excuse will do.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain the relative lack of similiar events in other countries?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, non sequitur.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not possibly be less of a non sequitor, if we are talking about ways of providing an environment in which these things don't happen.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to explain the relative lack of similiar events in other countries?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, non sequitur.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not possibly be less of a non sequitor, if we are talking about ways of providing an environment in which these things don't happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Poster A says he feels uncomfortable being near someone who wants to carry a gun.

Poster B says someone carrying a gun could have potentially stopped the VT shooting - that such a shooting is ALREADY IN PROGRESS is part of the assumption of the statement.

Then you jump in. Now, GIVEN that such an event is ALREADY IN PROGRESS, do you agree or disagree that an armed student could have potentially stopped it?

And in the context of "providing an environment in which these things don't happen," making a campus a "gun free zone" clearly does NOT prevent these things, since VT *IS* a gun free zone.

But since you brought it up, how results-oriented do you think your "lack of similar events in other countries" question is? Do you have any stats?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

In regards to the point that you were responding to, how many of these events, many of which occured outside the US, had armed citizens in the area who were *unable* to put a stop to the events?

On the other hand, we *can* see how easily an armed citizen can put a stop to such mass attacks:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar..._in_tennessee/

[ QUOTE ]
Ingram, chasing one victim into the store's parking lot, was subdued by Chris Cope, manager of a financial services office in the same small shopping center, Memphis Police Sgt. Vince Higgins said.

Cope said he grabbed a 9mm semiautomatic pistol from his pickup truck when he saw the attacker chasing the victim "like something in a serial killer movie."

"When he turned around and saw my pistol, he threw the knife away, put his hands up and got on the ground," Cope told The Associated Press. "He saw my gun and that was pretty much it."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

Jesus what an idiotic quote I just read from that article you linked pvn(a spokesman said): [ QUOTE ]
"We commend him," Higgins said. "But we don't encourage people to take that kind of risk. He could have been hurt."

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the 8 people who had been hurt? 95% of police work is retroactive. I've had enough of this "just let the police do their jobs" sentiment in instances like this. [censored] them telling me I "may get hurt". A couple other people could have been injured or killed if this citizen didn't do what he did. What a ridiculous thing to say after the fact

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

I saw this in today's paper: A gentleman saw a lady get slapped by a drug dealer on the street. He got out of his car to assist her. The dealer pulled out a gun and killed him. There are risks to taking the law into your own hands and escalating the situation.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw this in today's paper: A gentleman saw a lady get slapped by a drug dealer on the street. He got out of his car to assist her. The dealer pulled out a gun and killed him. There are risks to taking the law into your own hands and escalating the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt, but the "stay in your homes folks, everything is under control here!" mentality regarding the police is ridiculously overblown. That being said, I dont think that the "escalating the situation" remarks belong here. Clearly the instance I was speaking about had become escalated enough what with a nutjob stabbing people and trying to kill them. I just felt that the police saying that was extremely out of place and misguided following that specific situation.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

There was nothing that said that his emails were the only reason the school wanted a mental health evaluation. Just reading the emails leads me to believe this kid is mentally unbalanced and possibly dangerous. OP's thread title is a sham.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

You talk about off to the gulag and state that the health evaluation is because the guy is a gun-rights supporter and criticize others for non-sequiturs?

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

Gosh, on reading the topic I thought some sanity was lurking back into the darkness and silliness of USA. But it seems to no amount of evidence and shooting of innocent people is gonna get through to the gun nuts! They are just impervious to the evidence! Completely deranged imo, LOL

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, on reading the topic I thought some sanity was lurking back into the darkness and silliness of USA. But it seems to no amount of evidence and shooting of innocent people is gonna get through to the gun nuts! They are just impervious to the evidence! Completely deranged imo, LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Everytime I read one of your posts I end up on full blown life tilt, no joke.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and you had me all the way up to here:

[ QUOTE ]
[And, to go even further, I'm not even comfortable with the idea of sharing a campus with someone that feels he should be able to carry a gun around.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


too bad there werent a few "gun toting conservative rednecks" in the building when virginia tech got shot up this summer..... perhaps they could have saved lives

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I'd feel much safer walking around Philadelphia if I had a gun. And I don't blame any student (college or otherwise) for wanting to have a gun at his side after what's been going on the past years in this country.

People are less likely to commit violent crimes if they know that 95% of the people around them are armed.

Re: mandatory mental health evaluation for gun-rights supporters
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everytime I read one of your posts I end up on full blown life tilt, no joke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heya Taso, given most of your posts I am really glad that we have differing opinions.

For your information, when I read your posts, or most of them, I only feel like smiling at your naivety. It doesn't put me on tilt at all, seriously! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]