1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

New to the table, so no reads.

PokerStars 1.00/2.00 Limit Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> HandRecorder v0.9b

Preflop: Hero is BU with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, BB checks\.

Flop: (4.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP2 checks, <font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">MP2 bets</font>, Hero folds\.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB.

Flop+Turn bet (after hitting 2pair) should be standard.
After the turn c/r, my line was to call down unless a 4th club or a T-K pops up.
Correct line or too weak too strong for that level?

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you. Also I think that we don't have enough odds to call the turn. You have shown agression on the flop and are leading the turn and get still c/r. After the fourth club on the river, I don't see any other option than fold. Pot is not big enough to justify the call.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

*grunch*
I would play flop and turn the same. At flop u have top pair at unraised pot! have to bet when no whan bet beforu you esspecialy.

River is hard for me to play. U have 8,25:1 so you have to win only 10% of this types of river to break even. Question is can we call witn no reads, but probably with 2pair i will call this.

Here is probably good Ed's tips to dont fold decant hands at big pot if u need call only one bet.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

Grunch

I play the hand exactly the same without any reads...

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

played fine imo.

no way you check top pair on the button and give free cards to all the straight and one card flush draws. thats dumb.

and no way you fold the turn when you could easily have the best hand.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

I would bet the flop too, I ahve top pair and no one has bet before.
The turn looks good, definitely a bet. I don't want to give a free card to a draw. Is this a real c/r or is villain just going wild? Probably just feared the flush as well and thinks his hand is good. Therefore I would call and am not suprised if he doesn't have a flush.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

Do u think guys call river is medium/big mistake or marginal mistake instead we get info about villian's play?

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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Do u think guys call river is medium/big mistake or marginal mistake instead we get info about villian's play?

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I don't like calling the river because we only beat say, AxT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or a bluff, and we don't have enough of a read to know that this guy is willing to put in 3BB on a bluff attempt or that he thinks top pair is the nuts. If you are calling for information such as did he slowplay a (small?) flopped flush or can he semi-bluff OOP or did he wait to raise a strong, but non-flush hand on the turn on a scary board or something along those lines, I can see it being useful and don't mind it. Especially because we may get chances to isolate this guy in the future.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

Uh, we don't beat AxT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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Uh, we don't beat AxT[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

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Oh yeah. I stand by my thoughts of calling for information if you want it, but not cause we're good.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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Right, but in this case it seems like checking behind with position isn't terrible. Since this is a multi-way pot, on this board you're getting calls either from a draw or a justifiably cautious better A, and all you're really doing is building a pot with TPNK when practically half the deck scares you. Why not check behind and bet the turn if checked to you again on a blank when they won't be getting odds to call with a bare club? Or, in this case, since you hit two pair, you can raise the turn if bet into. If a scare card (club/K/T/maybe Q or J too) comes and there's action ahead of you, I'm ok letting this hand go.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

I'm not folding Aces Up on the river for 8.25:1 odds against an unkown. You will lose the majority of the time but against an unkown, I don't think it's unreasonable to say you win 12% of the time.

Yes, you are beat a lot here, but we have no idea what kind of player Villain is. If he sucks, he could have made this play with AK. It's even possible he has QJ. There is also no guarantee he has a flush.

Edit to add: Even if you are only good say 5% of the time, I think it's worth that small -EV to get some information.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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That's not at all what I meant. I don't have much against betting the flop, but I think that checking is better play here. If we bet the flop, anyone with a club is geting odds to call us. So our bet on the flop won't cause our opponent to do anything wrong and we are also helping him to draw correctly on the turn by building the pot. If we check, we'll forcing him to draw without proper odds.

I think that best way to win, is to put your opponent in position to make as many mistakes during the hand as possible.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

[ QUOTE ]
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I wouldn't bet the flop. Anyone with deacent club will call you.

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wtf? so you never bet if you think people call you? wow you must never bet at all.

heres a hint - to make money at poker, we need to bet, and our opponents have to call.

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That's not at all what I meant. I don't have much against betting the flop, but I think that checking is better play here. If we bet the flop, anyone with a club is geting odds to call us. So our bet on the flop won't cause our opponent to do anything wrong and we are also helping him to draw correctly on the turn by building the pot. If we check, we'll forcing him to draw without proper odds.

I think that best way to win, is to put your opponent in position to make as many mistakes during the hand as possible.

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But if u check at flop u will make bigger mistakes !
U say that if u bet then FD has odds to call, u right, but if u just check then give him FREE CARD its really bad, he dont have to pay to see next cards and has better odds than he must pay at least 1sb (if no one c/r flop).

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

there are about 5millions cards you don't want to see on the turn ... someone can have a better ace (and will never fold) ... this is an easy slow play board

IMO you don't have enough equity to bet into 3 opponents

?? ... anyone think a 3bet free showdown raise is any good
--&gt;villain slow plays two pair here a lot, semi-bluffs if hero has shown a little weakness lately

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

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I think not betting the flop is a very poor decision. Waiting for the turn situations are only when someone else has bet, IMO. Giving a free card is a big mistake.

Re: 1/2 FR on stars, A3s hitting 2pair on 3suited at turn, fold river
 

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if i was playing with a clear head I easily check this flop ...

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I think not betting the flop is a very poor decision. Waiting for the turn situations are only when someone else has bet, IMO. Giving a free card is a big mistake.

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when your hand isn't exactly strong and the pot is small .. you give up very little (or nothing at all) by not betting this flop

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I think the concept has a relationship to the strenght of your hand and the texture of the board ... you want to protect your hand which is the same as protecting your % of the pot ...