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hand 1#

v: 17.49/11.23/5.42 - 383 hands

0.25/0.50 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

Preflop: Hero is BU with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero caps, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (8.7 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, Hero folds.

<ul type="square">fold here is weak?[/list]Final Pot: 11.7 BB

hand #2

v: 18.94/10.76/2.33 - 700 hands

0.25/0.50 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.7 by www.pokerstrategy.cc.

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
5 folds, BU raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, BU caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BU bets, Hero calls.

<ul type="square">i have plan here to c/r turn[/list]Turn: (5.2 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, BU raises, Hero folds.

<ul type="square">My plan miss so i donk bet cus villian raise turn only 8% times (3/40)
Donk here ore better c/call down?[/list]Final Pot: 8.2 BB

Hand one depends on a few things.

Have you seen your villain try to bluff any scare cards during the session ever? If he seems like a straight-forward (and judging by your stats on him it seems like this is what he is, especially with his 3-bet PF), and non-sneaky opponent, you made the correct play -- as it looks like MP3 is playing AK, AQ, or AJs like I'd play it.

Blegh. Same deal with hand 2.

hand 1 is standard unless you have seen him c/r flush draws on the turn, but I'm pretty sure we're toast here.

hand 2 I don't like b/f, because we are not getting any value here, and we don't really need to rep the A here because we probably are ahead of all other hands. So let's let villain keep betting into us if he has QQ or JJ. We can also get to showdown our hand.

Buzz

i dont have any reads about villins

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hand 1 is standard unless you have seen him c/r flush draws on the turn, but I'm pretty sure we're toast here.

Buzz

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Isn't that aggro factor a bit high to assume we are toast?

Also, w/ that, wouldn't an induce check be a fare option?

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hand 1 is standard unless you have seen him c/r flush draws on the turn, but I'm pretty sure we're toast here.

Buzz

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Cap range here is AK minimum and all the pocket pairs above Ts (that's an approximation but pretty close).

Having said that, what are we beating that perks up when the A hits in either example?

LDO? Dont know that one.

Better explanation could be let the ones your beating spew off and save money against the AK

I wouldn't bet the turn in hand 1.

I would show down hand 2. (And I wouldn't bet the turn there either.)

GRUNCH

Hand 1 you're getting almost 12:1, and look at that guy's aggression factor! I call this and most rivers.

Hand 2 I'm not sure why you'd ever plan to wait until the turn with someone who was so aggressive pf; I'd just b/3b it. Hand plays differently from there.

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I wouldn't bet the turn in hand 1.

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Really? Just based on pf/f? Lots of hands play this way that don't have us beat, and we have been checked to on the turn.

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GRUNCH
Hand 2 I'm not sure why you'd ever plan to wait until the turn with someone who was so aggressive pf; I'd just b/3b it. Hand plays differently from there.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean to donk flop?

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[ QUOTE ]
GRUNCH
Hand 2 I'm not sure why you'd ever plan to wait until the turn with someone who was so aggressive pf; I'd just b/3b it. Hand plays differently from there.

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You mean to donk flop?

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Yup, although I don't really consider it donking when villain caps. Same idea, though.

If the guy is aggressive enough to bluff raise he's aggressive enough to bet a worse hand on the river. If he is this player then the fold is really the part I have trouble with. The problem is, once he checkraises the turn things look pretty crappy, but not crappy enough to fold.

We miss a bet on the turn against QQ, JJ, etc., when we check (assuming he would call down with those hands), but we'll almost always win a bet when he bets the river. We also avoid being bluffed, which probably isn't happening a lot but it's probably happening enough to call it down.

That's really the problem: once he checkraises the turn none of our options are that great.

Wow, I just can't envision myself checking the turn for fear of a check raise. Guess this falls into the "inducing a bluff" camp? I'll have to noodle on this for a while.

It's not all necessarily the fear of being checkraised.

Against the vast majority of players who are too loose and too passive it's a bet. You'll get called down by a lot of worse hands, and if they raise you can fold and still sleep at night.

Against an over aggressive player you can bet and hope for a bluff-raise.

Against a decent opponent, which this guy seems like he might be, neither of those options is very good. If he's doing any hand reading at all that Ace is a killer for him unless he's either got one, or he knows his opponent will occasionally fold a better hand if he bluff raises.

Yes, a lot of the time he'll still call two bets on the big streets with an underpair, but sometimes he'll fold them, other times he'll checkraise w/ AK or top set, and other times he'll checkraise with two Queens. (I'm talking about a good player here, not necessarily the villian in question, although from what we know about him he seems like a pretty tight and aggressive player.)

If I was the villian in this hand and you were the hero, and I checkraised that turn you would most likely call down, and a huge majority of the time that would be exactly what I hoped you would do. Against a person with at least a ballpark correct bluffing frequency there's no good play to make after he raises the turn. I would avoid that by checking and winning/losing one bet on the river.

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It's not all necessarily the fear of being checkraised.

Against the vast majority of players who are too loose and too passive it's a bet. You'll get called down by a lot of worse hands, and if they raise you can fold and still sleep at night.

Against an over aggressive player you can bet and hope for a bluff-raise.

Against a decent opponent, which this guy seems like he might be, neither of those options is very good. If he's doing any hand reading at all that Ace is a killer for him unless he's either got one, or he knows his opponent will occasionally fold a better hand if he bluff raises.

Yes, a lot of the time he'll still call two bets on the big streets with an underpair, but sometimes he'll fold them, other times he'll checkraise w/ AK or top set, and other times he'll checkraise with two Queens. (I'm talking about a good player here, not necessarily the villian in question, although from what we know about him he seems like a pretty tight and aggressive player.)

If I was the villian in this hand and you were the hero, and I checkraised that turn you would most likely call down, and a huge majority of the time that would be exactly what I hoped you would do. Against a person with at least a ballpark correct bluffing frequency there's no good play to make after he raises the turn. I would avoid that by checking and winning/losing one bet on the river.

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Kind of treat it as a WA/WB thought as the hands that you beat will spew into you and ur saving money against a made A.

Seems u face a lot of tough opponents.

Hand#1 If ur opp is so aggro u feel bad about folding (because he may bluff frequently) I think it's better to check behind the turn and induce a bluff. Otherwise nh.

Hand#2 I like.