blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

I thought I'd look over some hands from a recent session review and find one to post. Well, this is the very first hand that that I commented on. No reads since hero just posted the blind. What say you?

Bonus Question: if you dont like the way hero played this against an unknown then lets assume that Hero had reads/stats on this particular villian that I didnt have at my disposal.... what reads/stats would you want on villian to make the chosen line correct?

oh and noobs and lurkers are welcome in this thread and are encouraged to grunch it.

edit: to be clear. I did not play this hand, I reviewed it and Im asking the Bonus Question not because my reviewer partner had reads but because...well because I can and I think its a reasonable question in so far as it should make you think about reads that matter for blind defence.

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (5.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Final Pot: 5.20 BB

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

I'm not liking this much. I think its probably fielders choice whether to defend here HU against a possible MP steal. (thats something I would like a read on since you asked) If I do defend though I am raising preflop or at least c/r the flop. Then leading until raised.

I know some will say wtf of course defend with this but I'm not so sure. There is only marginal value to being suited in a HU pot and K6 is not very strong against a legitimate preflop raising range. I think basically the choice is try to resteal, in which case we need to get real aggressive, real early. Or give it up pre flop.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

I don't think I'd defend against an unknown with K6s. If I did defend with this hand, though, I'd probably 3bet it pf and lead the flop, calling down with my middle pair if I get raised...

I have no idea if this is correct. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm not the best when it comes to blind defense.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

I don't know that MP3 is stealing here and if you won it's because you ran into the non-ace, non-king portion of his open raising range.

That said, if this was a steal situation I like it. You get the most out of someone who is representing the ace but would fold to a raise and lose the least from someone who isn't stealing but value raising.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

[ QUOTE ]
oh and noobs and lurkers are welcome in this thread and are encouraged to grunch it.


[/ QUOTE ]
Fitting all criteria.

I think I fold this preflop against an unknown (I usually play 1/2 6max crypto). I certainly call it against a sb opener, but only call it against an aggressive button raiser or a hyperaggressive (ATSB &gt; 50%) CO opener. I'd need K9s+ to call in more situations. I understand I have the required hot/cold equity preflop to call but I find K6s difficult to play postflop against an unknown.

Given the preflop call and the AK7r board our equity is decent (40% against a range of 22+,Ax+, any 2 broadways) so I'm certainly calling the flop, and probably calling the turn. Although the turn/river cards are good I think I check/fold the river because he's not firing his 66 UI again.

edit: If I'm getting to showdown I'm probably calling down, I don't think raising gets us any more value. Board is dry enough.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

I think hero played it very well, this line will win you the most when ahead and lose you the least when behind.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

With no reads I'm folding preflop. You don't want to see an A on the flop and you can't be sure you won't be dominated with a K. MP3 is a bit early for a genuine steal at 0.25/0.5

What I'd like to know is:-
(i) how's the table playing? Supertight and passive and the raiser might have a very wide range
(ii) what's hero's image from the blinds (&amp; would raiser notice)?
(iii) how tight is raiser and what's his PFR stats (does he usually raise first in)?
(iv) how aggressive is he post-flop?
(iv) how likely is raiser to lay down before showdown?

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think hero played it very well, this line will win you the most when ahead and lose you the least when behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I'd fold to a river bet usually.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

First hand, no reads, I'm folding this. I will take this line against an MP3 raise only with a specific read that villain will steal raise loose from MP3. Most villains do not steal from MP3 at .5/1, i'm assuming similar for .25/.5. I'm probably folding this against a HJ steal also in a first hand at table with no reads situation.

With no reads I like this line as win most/lose least in a blind defense vs. CO or button.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

*noob grunch*

Fold pre for me, especially since I don't have any read and I'm just sitting down. No sense of how the table is playing, or how this guy is playing.

To call this, villain would have to have a history of aggression from hijack. Alternatively, if this table had been wicked tight for the last few rounds, then I might also be suspicious.

As played, fold turn.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never played that game, which makes it hard.

The preflop call is fine unless you think villain is a nit (no reads = not assumed to be a nit).

The line is good up to the river, where the only remaining interesting decision lies. Do you call a river bet or do you fold? Against an unknown, I'm inclined to just fold because the AKx board is already scary enough to prevent many players from betting, and when you add in the xx78T 3-flush, you've got a board that will freeze up almost any weaker player. If he's capable of bluffing there, you should find out pretty quickly by watching a few hands and then you'll have plenty of time (hopefully) to win it back from him.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

i generally call open raises from the hijack+ with suited kings ... but i need to know the guy has some aggression

when I first start a session i generally play my blind soft untill i get a feel for the table (you can get yourself into a lot of trouble playing hands like these against unknowns)

as for post flop i would generally play it the same (and fold that river most of the time if villain bets) ... sometimes I'll donk the flop and expect to get looked up with less than aces (folding to a raise, most of the time)

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

GRUNCH:

Generally in a blind defense hand, I like to raise a pair when I get one. Usually the flop since it's good and cheap. If 3-bet, I know I'm probably in trouble. If villain is position aware, his raising range is much wider than it otherwise would be, thus does not necessarily include an A or better K.

Hero is playing this like a WA/WB, except he missed the river donk. I would probably play it this way against a villain who isn't position aware or rarely steals. His range is much more likely to include the A, but also might be big pockets.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

*grunch

I would bet/fold the river as a blind defense move if I knew the guy attacked more than 20% of his hands here but likely I would fold the flop.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

smurph

bet/folding the river can easily not be correct if the guy isn't going to call any worse hands. if you read the shorthanded forums you'll see c/c c/c c/f as a recommended line more often, simply because there's sort of an inflection point between the turn and river where people decide to fire barrels much less often. obviously with a significant read, everything becomes a lot easier; however, folding the flop is pretty much incorrect vs. 100% of villains as you are drawing correctly or beating a vast majority of villain's hands. don't ignore 66-QQ or your implied odds vs. AQ.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

thanks for the info miles I didn't think of that cause honestly K6 s in a full ring I would probably fold but shorthanded what you stated makes the most sense.

I was thinking of a king high flop only as a playable hand here other than a flush draw and that is way too tight.

In full ring I probably leak a lot because I fold to aces more often than not, since most people over play them I just assume that is what they have.

Re: blind defence review hand....gogogo
 

perfect.