1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

Ok so basically this kind of a similar post to my one earlier on 2/4 limit. Where i tried to find out if 2/4 limit was beatable with the crazy rake + tips. I found it wasnt beatable and i should play 4/8 which i am fine with.

But my next question is comes from my buddy, He says he has been beating 1/2 NL for awhile now, While I dont entirely doubt him i find it highly unlikely. The time charge there is 10 bucks an hour, You are looking at like 30 hands an hour (max). So with a winrate of 7PTBB/100 you are still losing 2 bucks every 3 hours to time charge. So from people here with a decent sample size is it like 2/4 limit and entirely unbeatable?

Or do i underestimate the donkness of people at Foxwoods

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

id say no doubt it is beatable, the players are horrendous, someone who plays it alot will prolly give u good details. Id also say closer to 20 hands an hour and a higher winrate than 7ptbb/100.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/qa...ng-players.html

here's an article by Ed Miller that might be worth looking at.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

That's a great article. Very informative and very true.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/qa/qa...ng-players.html

here's an article by Ed Miller that might be worth looking at.

[/ QUOTE ]

after reading the article it seems that 17BBPT/100 is easily attainable which is shocking and refreshing.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

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i dont know how this holds any relevance to the subject other then you flexing your e-peen. but thank you for the input.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

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because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

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because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

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What's your point? There are only so many hours in a day. I can only play one table at a time. If a holdem game gives me an hourly rate of $35/hr and a O8B game gives me a rate of $30/hr, do I care that my BB/100 is higher in O8B?

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? There are only so many hours in a day. I can only play one table at a time. If a holdem game gives me an hourly rate of $35/hr and a O8B game gives me a rate of $30/hr, do I care that my BB/100 is higher in O8B?

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im much more technical i guess, i plug in every hand in my hand held device and put them in a spreadsheet at home

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? There are only so many hours in a day. I can only play one table at a time. If a holdem game gives me an hourly rate of $35/hr and a O8B game gives me a rate of $30/hr, do I care that my BB/100 is higher in O8B?

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im much more technical i guess, i plug in every hand in my hand held device and put them in a spreadsheet at home

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That doesn't change the fact that if you play games where you make the highest hourly rate, you end up with more money at the end of the year. Hourly rate is the metric for live play.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? There are only so many hours in a day. I can only play one table at a time. If a holdem game gives me an hourly rate of $35/hr and a O8B game gives me a rate of $30/hr, do I care that my BB/100 is higher in O8B?

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im much more technical i guess, i plug in every hand in my hand held device and put them in a spreadsheet at home

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wtf you need to plug hands into software to figure out how to beat live 1/2 retards getting 25 hands an hour?

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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wtf you need to plug hands into software to figure out how to beat live 1/2 retards getting 25 hands an hour?

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Well, if I didn't, how would I ever get a Sklansky $$ graph?

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why do players use internet terminology for brick and mortar? its not bb/100 hands but bb/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your point? There are only so many hours in a day. I can only play one table at a time. If a holdem game gives me an hourly rate of $35/hr and a O8B game gives me a rate of $30/hr, do I care that my BB/100 is higher in O8B?

[/ QUOTE ]

im much more technical i guess, i plug in every hand in my hand held device and put them in a spreadsheet at home

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf you need to plug hands into software to figure out how to beat live 1/2 retards getting 25 hands an hour?

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i tested it there, and used it when we played 400-800 in commerce

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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i tested it there, and used it when we played 400-800 in commerce

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yikes... i bet your opponents gave you a hard time over that one.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

I'll just reply to the original post and say yes, the 1-2 at FW is unquestionably easily beatable. The key is making sure you play at the right tables. There are truly horrendous players who literally give their money away, and they more than make up for the time charge. Keep in mind variance can occur though, and if you play right(betting enough to maximize value, correctly calling big bets, etc.), you need a bigger br than you might think. I'm currently on a 800 bb downswing, but still beating the game for 8bb/hr over 375 hours.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

1/2 at foxwoods is easily beatable for 15-22 dollars an hour even with the time charge, the players are terrible the max buy in is 150BB the games play deep and the players dont know how to play deep. this game is insanely profitable and anyone who says otherwise just isnt playing well IMO.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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I'll just reply to the original post and say yes, the 1-2 at FW is unquestionably easily beatable. The key is making sure you play at the right tables. There are truly horrendous players who literally give their money away, and they more than make up for the time charge. Keep in mind variance can occur though, and if you play right(betting enough to maximize value, correctly calling big bets, etc.), you need a bigger br than you might think. I'm currently on a 800 bb downswing, but still beating the game for 8bb/hr over 375 hours.

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ok thank you for keeping on topic, Seems most of people just went way off to what i was asking. Your post was exactly something i was looking for. Why i said i didnt doubt it was possible, Just didnt seem practical. But like I said, I guess I underestimated the donkness of the players at the woods.

also i dont think a 800BB downswing is that bad. Its only 3 buy ins roughly. You could probably get away with a 10 buyin Bankroll for this game if its beatable for 24BB/100

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

...you under-estimate the donkey-ness of the FW 1-2 nl fish tank...

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'll just reply to the original post and say yes, the 1-2 at FW is unquestionably easily beatable. The key is making sure you play at the right tables. There are truly horrendous players who literally give their money away, and they more than make up for the time charge. Keep in mind variance can occur though, and if you play right(betting enough to maximize value, correctly calling big bets, etc.), you need a bigger br than you might think. I'm currently on a 800 bb downswing, but still beating the game for 8bb/hr over 375 hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll echo what Bill (iirc) said that FW 1/2 is very table dependent. By this, I don't mean that the game is ever tough or unbeatable, but that some tables are WAY more profitable than others. In my experience (way less hours than WMB's, as I find 1/2 dull), the best tables include 2 or more people at the table with full buy-ins who will stack off WAY light and are therefore giving you insane implied odds to set-mine and chase less obvious draws (which basically means anything but a flopped 4 flush).

If I flop a couple sets and/or turn a couple straights at a LHE game, I'll be off to a nice start. Do so at the right 1/2 table, I'll be up 2-4 buyins. For me, that's the only time when 1/2 is really, really fun-- when a couple players are giving such great implied odds that I can play hands a TAG wouldn't usually be caught dead with. I think the most memorable hand of my year was stacking some poor soul for almost 2 buy-ins with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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i tried to find out if 2/4 limit was beatable with the crazy rake + tips. I found it wasnt beatable and i should play 4/8 which i am fine with.

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yes it is. go read a couple of books or just use common sense. any decent player should be able to beat a live 2/4 LHE w/ 10% rake up to $4 or $5 for at least 1BB/hr. by the way, it helps a lot to not go crazy tippin. make the tip $1 every time and if the pot is less than a certain amount ($12 for me) then don't tip @ all.

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That's NOT a great article. KIND OF informative and NOT ENTIRELY true.

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after reading the article it seems that 17BBPT/100 is easily attainable which is shocking and refreshing.

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i dont know how this holds any relevance to the subject other then you flexing your e-peen. but thank you for the input

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because bb per hour is so vague, some games u might get close to 40 an hour , and other games like NL and the split games u might get only 20.

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first of all measurin BB/100 in a live game is stupid because u r not goin to be able to count the hands u play all the time. even if u r capable of doin it u should be usin that concentration to pick up bettin patterns and physical tells. a good live player only looks at the time they started playin and the time they stopped playin. once in a while u might count how many hands durin a half hr period so u have an approximation of how any hands u playin but by no means that's the measurin standard for live games.

also, u mentioned somethin about beatin the game for about 7BB/100. live that's roughly 2BB/hr. that's a VERY low winrate for live 1/2. u'll prolly be one of the donks if that's ur winrate. and u r surprised @ 17BB/100. live that's only 4 or 5BB/hr which is still not dominant but much more reasonable. if u r a dominant player u should beat the live 1/2 for double that amount with no problem @ all.

one last thing. i agree w/ the guy who mentioned that a solid player should be just fine on a 10 buy-in BR for this game.

Re: 1/2 NL beatable? (foxwoods)
 

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...you under-estimate the donkey-ness of the FW 1-2 nl fish tank...

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That's the problem, as long as inexperienced losers come in droves to donate then the game is fine. If a 1/2 starts to resemble the medium stakes limit games then the time charge will be prohibitive.