To Catch a Predator
 

I just recently started watching the Dateline "To Catch a Predator" shows. I'm curious what you guys think of it. I guess I mean from an ethical standpoint.

Something about it feels dirty to me. I don't really mind the idea of a sting, in theory. Protecting children from actual predators is a pretty good thing I guess. But I can't help but feel like mixing an operation like this with a TV show (which is obviously driven by ratings) is a horrible, horrible idea.

Some of the people caught have past records and are obviously scum bags, so I'm not sympathetic to them. But some of the people seem quasi-respectable and insist that they just had a lapse of judgment. And given that they're seeing a really attractive 19-21 year old actor or actress on the webcam, and chatting with decoys who know exactly what buttons to press, I tend to believe them. If you try really hard to get someone to do something, sometimes you'll succeed. I'd imagine that going after the rabbi or the successful cancer doctor makes for a better TV show than settling for the same cast of degenerates.

I'm not saying that society shouldn't still see these people as some sort of a problem. Obviously it's natural to conclude that since they showed up at the house they're more likely to endanger a child than the average person. But being exposed on national television as a "child predator" and being charged with a felony seems really unfair. Basically I think you have to be real careful with your methods when you conduct a sting operation like this, and I think making a TV show out of it makes that basically impossible. I'm curious what you guys think.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I agree that calling these guys "predators" is often a bit of a stretch. First of all, the decoys often pretend to be 13 or 14, which is obviously young, but still within the age of sexual maturity. And often the decoys say highly suggestive stuff in the chat boxes in order to entice the guys.

Older men should not be going after 13-14 year old girls, but almost all the guys on the show are clearly not luring otherwise unsuspecting girls into sex.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

They are all huge scumbags, get real. If they weren't going to meet up with the sting, it would have been an actual 12 year old.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

Every single guy says "this is my first time" or "I messed up, it won't happen again." Do you actually believe that crap?

One guy said that it was his first time and won't happen again, yet Chris Hansen met up with him again the NEXT DAY.

They are all pieces of trash.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I haven't seen the show. Do they show he process of getting the guys to the house, or do they just show them in the house result, of them being there with chris hansen.
Also OP says they use some 21 year-olds that they set up as bait? Isn't that legit? If I were a 40, I'd bang a twenty one year old? Why the [censored] not, If she consented?

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I don't mind if they do the sting, but I think its ridiculous that they try to pass it off as journalism.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I liked watching the first couple episodes but now I am extremely tired of it. It seems like they are longer creative enough to put on a show without using this theme. If I wanted to watch a bunch of trash every week I would be watching "Cops" which does a better job.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

The way it works is that someone at perverted-justice.com sets up a yahoo profile with information saying they are underage, and then they wait for someone to initiate contact with them.

It is made very clear how old the "child" is supposed to be - usually 12-15.

Most of the time the predator initiates sex talks, but sometimes it's the "decoy." Some people claim this is entrapment, but there are many ways in which they prove it's not. First, the predator has to drive to a location, which gives them time to think about the decision. Second, they tell them to bring certain items - be it food, drinks, condoms, flowers, etc in the same chat in which they talk about sex and the meet up. This proves intent to have sex.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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First of all, the decoys often pretend to be 13 or 14, which is obviously young, but still within the age of sexual maturity.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not pedophilia, but it is predatory.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't seen the show. Do they show he process of getting the guys to the house, or do they just show them in the house result, of them being there with chris hansen.
Also OP says they use some 21 year-olds that they set up as bait? Isn't that legit? If I were a 40, I'd bang a twenty one year old? Why the [censored] not, If she consented?

[/ QUOTE ]


Hansen has a copy of the chat log where they tell the predator that they are a 12 year old. The predator comes to the house where he thinks the 12 yr old from the internet is and then walks in, then Chris Hansen confronts them (sometimes the dudes gets naked, it's gross). The only time a 21 year old is used is if they have to talk on the phone, and the 21 year old just has a young sounding voice.

It is not legal to solicit sexual acts from a minor over the internet, whether or not the person on the other end is actually a minro does not matter, the intent to do so is still there, thus it is a crime.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

My legal question is how they are able to show the guy's faces. I thought that if you did not want your face on TV, then it was not to be shown (think of cops). I seriously doubt these guys consented to that, what the hell???

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

Catch a Predator is the most immoral show to ever broadcast on TV imo.

It's not journalism.
It's sadistic to make entertainment out of pedophilia and the criminal justice system.
It's an unethical means of catching criminals.
The law (that many states have) that you can be convicted of child abuse if you chat with a 40 year old woman posing as a child is nonsense in my opinion. I don't think that that doesn't represent some criminal activity, but it definitely isn't the criminal activity suggested by those laws.



anyway, i have posted my thoughts on this matter before on this forum and I was accused of being either a sex offender or a sex offender sympathizer or something. Its kind of disturbing that you can't criticize things like catch a predator without being thought of as crazy.

ultimately, i think its depressing to think how sadistic the average person is and how draconian the average person is in thinking up solutions to the worlds ills.

if you don't think the average person is sadistic. think about how the average person would answer the question "Should people convicted of pedophilia be protected from cruel and unusual punishment?" or perhaps the more leading question "Would it be OK for the government to castrate individuals convicted of pedophilia?" Shows like Catch a Predator just feed that kind of sentiment imo.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
My legal question is how they are able to show the guy's faces. I thought that if you did not want your face on TV, then it was not to be shown (think of cops). I seriously doubt these guys consented to that, what the hell???

[/ QUOTE ]

I think they have gone on record as saying that they can do this because it is not an entertainment show but a NEWS show(news shows never/rarely blur out the alleged since its central to the story). which is [censored] imo.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
My legal question is how they are able to show the guy's faces. I thought that if you did not want your face on TV, then it was not to be shown (think of cops). I seriously doubt these guys consented to that, what the hell???

[/ QUOTE ]

Two guesses

A)It's a news program, so faces can be shown
or
B)They asked, the guys said yes. Some of the guys on COPS say yes.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
Catch a Predator is the most immoral show to ever broadcast on TV imo.

It's not journalism.
It's sadistic to make entertainment out of pedophilia and the criminal justice system.
It's an unethical means of catching criminals.
The law (that many states have) that you can be convicted of child abuse if you chat with a 40 year old woman posing as a child is nonsense in my opinion. I don't think that that doesn't represent some criminal activity, but it definitely isn't the criminal activity suggested by those laws.



anyway, i have posted my thoughts on this matter before on this forum and I was accused of being either a sex offender or a sex offender sympathizer or something. Its kind of disturbing that you can't criticize things like catch a predator without being thought of as crazy.

ultimately, i think its depressing to think how sadistic the average person is and how draconian the average person is in thinking up solutions to the worlds ills.

if you don't think the average person is sadistic. think about how the average person would answer the question "Should people convicted of pedophilia be protected from cruel and unusual punishment?" or perhaps the more leading question "Would it be OK for the government to castrate individuals convicted of pedophilia?" Shows like Catch a Predator just feed that kind of sentiment imo.

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The fact that if it was not a 40 year old, then it would have been a real 12 year old, is the main crux of the problem.

And I don't think the crime is child abuse or sexual assault since they don't actually assault a child...it is most likely attempted sexual assault or whatever...which is much different

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

How is it not entrapment to set people up like this?

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
How is it not entrapment to set people up like this?

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It's only entrapment if the people send the first PM out or something liek that. They can only bust them if the guy started talking to the "minor" first.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out.

Every person who ends up on the show was specifically looking for an underage girl to have sex with. There is no grey area here at all.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

they tried to spice it up a bit by adding a camo cop hiding in the bushes who helps subdue the suspect... is having swamp-thing jump out of the bushes really necessary?

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

So if I go to a chatroom and a 15 year old ASKS ME to have sex, I cant get busted? sweeeeet!

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out.

Every person who ends up on the show was specifically looking for an underage girl to have sex with. There is no grey area here at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the time the guy didn't show up, so they went to his house to arrest him, and then before they could get inside he shot himself, or something like that.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if I go to a chatroom and a 15 year old ASKS ME to have sex, I cant get busted? sweeeeet!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's not to say you couldn't get in trouble for actualy having sex with her, but yes you're correct that it won't be "to catch a predator" on the other end of the computer if they talk to you first.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
So if I go to a chatroom and a 15 year old ASKS ME to have sex, I cant get busted? sweeeeet!

[/ QUOTE ]

Entrapment only applies to law enforcement. Furthermore, entrapment occurs when you are persuaded or coerced - not merely offered an opportunity to commit a crime.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

some relevant links:
http://www.corrupted-justice.com/
http://www.corrupted-justice.com/article19.html

I am not real familiar with this site but basically it is a site that tries to point out how perverted-justice does some pretty disgusting stuff in an effort to 'serve justice'.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out.

Every person who ends up on the show was specifically looking for an underage girl to have sex with. There is no grey area here at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the time the guy didn't show up, so they went to his house to arrest him, and then before they could get inside he shot himself, or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Soliciting sex with a minor.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How is it not entrapment to set people up like this?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's only entrapment if the people send the first PM out or something liek that. They can only bust them if the guy started talking to the "minor" first.

[/ QUOTE ]

also i dont think the decoys can say "why dont you come over and [censored] me in the [censored]." all aspects have to be instigated by the villian


i still love the show though, even though its pretty unethical

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So if I go to a chatroom and a 15 year old ASKS ME to have sex, I cant get busted? sweeeeet!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Entrapment only applies to law enforcement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, no [censored].

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, entrapment occurs when you are persuaded or coerced - not merely offered an opportunity to commit a crime.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a chick asking me to [censored] her is persuasive enough.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They do absolutely nothing to entice the men who appear on the show. They simply go to a chat room, or set a profile on myspace, and wait for someone to bite. They don't ask around for guys, or actively seek anyone out.

Every person who ends up on the show was specifically looking for an underage girl to have sex with. There is no grey area here at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the time the guy didn't show up, so they went to his house to arrest him, and then before they could get inside he shot himself, or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Soliciting sex with a minor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I get that. I was disagreeing with characterization that "to catch a predator" is non-predatory.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't mind if they do the sting, but I think its ridiculous that they try to pass it off as journalism.

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exactly.
Chris Hansen sure likes to read all the dirty-chat stuff in his pseudo-professional tone.

"We counted where you said 'penis' 17 different times. Penis Penis Penis. Is this appropriate chat with a 14 year-old? PENIS PENIS PENIS!!! MWAH-HAH-HAH-HAH!! Booglity-Bogglity!!!"


Also really amusing how they have the voice-actors read the chat.


"I can put my **** in your mouth. And then I can show you doggy-style if it's your first time."
"Tee-hee. That sounds great."


Scum-bags going after little kids on the internet = Legit news-story.

NBC showing each and every predator they catch because people like hearing all the dirty words on TV = not so much.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

They all deserve it, now the thing I think is too much (seems like its done for tv). Is that whenever the guy is leaving and they say "put your hands up" etc even soemtimes the guy complies and gently gets to his knees clearly not a threat, and the cops just bullrush him and knock him over and ram his face into the ground, clearly not necessary. I wouldn't mind it if it wasn't on TV but the only reason they do it is for the ratings.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

Yeah, the cops getting all wacky and violently tackling the guy is totally ridiculous.
I've seen that too and it seems WAY over-the-top in a, "I'm on TV and look how cool I am" kind of way.

You just know that these guys are watching the program and telling their buddies, "Look how I flattened that guy. Holy crap. Did I crush him on that one or what?!?! Awesome!!

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

This never sat well with me, I always felt like Dateline was as much of a scumbag as these guys. These men are committing victimless crimes.

These guys think they hit the jackpot when they find an underage person looking for consensual sex. Most people won't do this, but there will always be people who give in. Dateline/Perverted Justice are the real predators.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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These men are committing victimless crimes.

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WTF?

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I reserve my sympathy for people who deserve it, like cancer patients and people in car accidents.

Are people like the doctor and the rabbi a bit unlucky? Maybe. But nobody made them go to a minor's house looking for sex.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I am waiting for a whole new craze where predators join Perverted Justice just to meet the 18 year olds that role play 13 year olds.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I like the idea and most things about the show, except the host. Hansen seems to get some sort of sick personal satisfaction when he reads the chat logs out loud to the guys. They need to change the host to someone that isnt a douche bag, but otherwise I like it.

It seems like most of the guys who go there arent really forced to go. Its just impossible to defend them from that. You can say perverted justice is sneaky while chatting and might even start conversations or whatever, but the guys drive to meet the underage kids. There is just no way you can defend someone who drives somewhere where he knows he will probably commit a crime.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

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It's a news program

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Debatable. Plus, can the 6 PM news go out to a speed trap the cops have set up and broadcast the busted people's face that night?

The real thing on this show is that the internet is so murky. Yahoo chat rooms used to have all kinds of pretty twisted sexual fantasy room a few years ago anyway, including rape. I just don't see how "it's the interent, I didn't believe she was 13" is not a way out.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea and most things about the show, except the host. Hansen seems to get some sort of sick personal satisfaction when he reads the chat logs out loud to the guys. They need to change the host to someone that isnt a douche bag, but otherwise I like it.

It seems like most of the guys who go there arent really forced to go. Its just impossible to defend them from that. You can say perverted justice is sneaky while chatting and might even start conversations or whatever, but the guys drive to meet the underage kids. There is just no way you can defend someone who drives somewhere where he knows he will probably commit a crime.

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what you are saying is largely irrelevant. its not an issue of defending the alleged. the issue is that the people who are trying to serve justice are unethical sleaze balls.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

[ QUOTE ]
Plus, can the 6 PM news go out to a speed trap the cops have set up and broadcast the busted people's face that night?

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not sure they can go to where the cops have done this.
But they can go after bad drivers themselves if they like.

IIRC, the first 'Predator' shows they didn't work with the cops. They set up the guys and did the same kind of stuff but then were disappointed that they couldn't get any arrests when they handed off the evidence to the cops.

So, from then on, they got together with the local cops to do this somehow.


In Memphis, there was one channel that was focusing on the city's supposesly awful drivers.
Some reporter would set up at a different spot each week and then run up to somebody's car-window and stick a microphone in their face and practically scream, "You didn't stop at that intersection" or "that's not an official parking space. What's your excuse!!"


This was a big thing this channel was promoting.
"Wednesday Night Bad Drivers with Jennie Deprezio (or whatever her name is)."

Totally obnoxious and ridiculous.
And we have so much real crime and other serious issues in Memphis that I can't believe they would waste that much time chasing after people who parked in a handicapped space and then calling it 'news'.

Re: To Catch a Predator
 

I wouldn't go so far as to call all of these men scumbags..

what they are actually doing is planning to engage in consentual sex with what they think is a 13-15 year old girl.

this is against the law..but what is so "sick" about it again?

as yourself.."what would happen if the supposedly young girl in this case told them that she did not want to have sex with them?" My guess is that nearly all of them wouldn't pursue it any further...probably no more than they would if this were an attractive girl of legal age..maybe even less.

the law is supposed to (or should IMO) protect young girls (and boys) who are not mature enough to make these types of decisions in an educated manner...

let's not pretend that there is some hard and fast line where a person suddenly becomes mature enough to make these decisions.....I'm sure that there are plenty of 15 year old girls that can make a more educated decisions than many 18+ year olds...

still...there is a law in place...many of these guys have children and I'm sure they wouldn't want a random guy soliciting their children for sex..even if their children consented...

so they are breaking the law...and they must be punished for that...

but let's not throw out a broad label of "sick" or "scumbag"

as far as the ethics of producing a show like this...

let's face it..if you want to arrest every single man who would engage in sex with a attractive 15 year old girl if that girl wanted to..we'd be pretty busy..

I think the focus should be on people who are actively seeking out young children...which I think they are generally doing in this case...

but to make a show about it..for entertainment..and give them what I think are special priveleges like being able to show their faces even when they have not been convicted of any crime..that's just ridiculous.