Limit material.
 

Hey guys, I play short limit for a living and was wondering if anyone has read any good limit books that have helped improve their game. The only thing I have ever found to be helpful is of course stox's book.

Thanks!

Re: Limit material.
 

You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I play short limit for a living and was wondering if anyone has read any good limit books that have helped improve their game. The only thing I have ever found to be helpful is of course stox's book.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no, Bearl discovered 2+2. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Welcome.

You play 0.5/1 Stars for a living? That's impressive.

Anyway, to be constructive:

Small Stakes Hold'em.
Theory of Poker.
Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players.
Inside the Poker Mind.
Winning in Tough Hold'em Games.
How Good is your Limit Hold'em? (1 and 2)

That should get you started.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!

If you have read stox book as well as HEPFAP and SSHE you can't expect to find any revolutionary book that will make a huge impact on your game. I'm skimming through "Weighing the Odds" right now and I think there are some good stuff in it.

Re: Limit material.
 

Sorry, of course he can ask that. It's just that, you see a guy's first post and he claims he makes a living playing SH and wants to know which books to read. Maybe just too late for me to be responding. I apologize to the OP.

Re: Limit material.
 

How has HEPFAP been for you all? Is it worth reading in lue of Stox's book?

Re: Limit material.
 

Ace on the river is pretty good too. It has a lot of insight into the general mindset of a winning player. It's a fun read as well.

Mathematics of poker is really good if you take the time to read and understand it.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I play short limit for a living and was wondering if anyone has read any good limit books that have helped improve their game. The only thing I have ever found to be helpful is of course stox's book.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no, Bearl discovered 2+2. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Welcome.

You play 0.5/1 Stars for a living? That's impressive.

Anyway, to be constructive:

Small Stakes Hold'em.
Theory of Poker.
Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players.
Inside the Poker Mind.
Winning in Tough Hold'em Games.
How Good is your Limit Hold'em? (1 and 2)

That should get you started.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks. I have read winning in tough hold'em games and of course small stakes hold'em. I have known about 2+2 but never bothered reading the forums until know. I didn't know so much information existed about SHLHE. I used to grind 2/4 and 3/6 exclusively on stars. I stopped playing for a while and just got my supernova back a couple months ago. Grinding 50/1 and 1/2 til I build back a roll again. Ill be sure to check out those other books, Thanks.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I play short limit for a living and was wondering if anyone has read any good limit books that have helped improve their game. The only thing I have ever found to be helpful is of course stox's book.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh no, Bearl discovered 2+2. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Welcome.

You play 0.5/1 Stars for a living? That's impressive.

Anyway, to be constructive:

Small Stakes Hold'em.
Theory of Poker.
Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players.
Inside the Poker Mind.
Winning in Tough Hold'em Games.
How Good is your Limit Hold'em? (1 and 2)

That should get you started.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks. I have read winning in tough hold'em games and of course small stakes hold'em. I have known about 2+2 but never bothered reading the forums until know. I didn't know so much information existed about SHLHE. I used to grind 2/4 and 3/6 exclusively on stars. I stopped playing for a while and just got my supernova back a couple months ago. Grinding 50/1 and 1/2 til I build back a roll again. Ill be sure to check out those other books, Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got nova on 0.5/1 and 1/2? That's impressive as well. I think the rate for FPP at 0.5/1 is about 0.25 and at 1/2 it's about 0.36. We have played a lot together in those games. You seemed a bit too aggressive if that helps you.

Re: Limit material.
 

Maybe you should write one on how to play stars .50/1 for a living!

I have historically always played 1 table and am now trying to beat $10/20. I'm crap at multitabling and always go home a looser if I try it, it dosen't suit my game.

So the answer to your question may lie in what you wish to achieve.

I have literally read the whole of Amazon however SSHE, The theory of poker, Holdem for Advanced players and Stox should keep you going for a while.

I am not playing pro however whenever I read a book with some new concepts(to me anyway) I tend to lose a few quid until I figure where they fit into my game, this could be a killer if you're playing 22/20 on 6 tables!

Oh poker essays 1,2 and 3 are the best limit books beside Stox!

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a lot of hands. Wow. So you need 10000 FPP a month to reach Supernova before November. That means you need to play about 40000 hands a month.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]
hehehehehe

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a lot of hands. Wow. So you need 10000 FPP a month to reach Supernova before November. That means you need to play about 40000 hands a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

6 tabling fast tables gets you about 700 hands an hour. You make an average of like 35 FPP an hour at a .50/1 table. Grind that for 5 hours a day you can hit supernova in about 3 months (I hit it in about 4 and a half). If you are getting anywhere from 500-1K FPP a day (15K-30K a month) anyone should be able to get supernova in a calendar year. And maintaining it is quite easy as all you need to do is get 10K a month and it is about the equivelant to 30% rakeback from what I understand not to mention the saturday $50K freerolls [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Limit material.
 

.....Stakers lining up

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]
hehehehehe

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume he can beat it for 1.5BB/100.

He needs to make 100000 VPP to get the bonus each month.

He gets 3.5 VPP per FPP, so he needs to generate about 30000 VPP per month.

That means he needs to play 120000 hands a month.

That means about 4800 hands a day if he plays about 25 days out of the month. He should be able to do that if he puts in a full days work at 4-6 tables.

That's $72 a day.

That's $1800 a month in winrate + $1500 in bonus = $3300 a month. He might actually play more than this though and cash in the freerolls quite a bit.

That's at least $16.5 an hour when you don't include the freerolls.

Re: Limit material.
 

If I ever get to a point in my life where I'm multitabling .50/1 6-max limit for 120,000 hands a month spread over 25 days, I am just going to take my hair dryer into the bathtub with me and call it a life.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You play for a living and you're asking us which books to buy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why can't he ask that? You don't need to read every book thats written about limit poker to be a winner!



[/ QUOTE ]


false

and playing "pro" at 0.50/1 is retarded.

go to target and get like 10/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You can easily make $4000+ a month 4-6 tabling .50/1 with the supernova bonus and the freeroll.

[/ QUOTE ]
hehehehehe

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's assume he can beat it for 1.5BB/100.

He needs to make 100000 VPP to get the bonus each month.

He gets 3.5 VPP per FPP, so he needs to generate about 30000 VPP per month.

That means he needs to play 120000 hands a month.

That means about 4800 hands a day if he plays about 25 days out of the month. He should be able to do that if he puts in a full days work at 4-6 tables.

That's $72 a day.

That's $1800 a month in winrate + $1500 in bonus = $3300 a month. He might actually play more than this though and cash in the freerolls quite a bit.

That's at least $16.5 an hour when you don't include the freerolls.

[/ QUOTE ]


and that is "assuming" he is going to win at 1.5bb/100

this guy hasnt read small stakes, he's not beating any poker game fro 1.5bb/100

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I ever get to a point in my life where I'm multitabling .50/1 6-max limit for 120,000 hands a month spread over 25 days, I am just going to take my hair dryer into the bathtub with me and call it a life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Though one can make an argument for some situations for some time, and if some person in some lower salary country insists, though I would still advice to get the money at the level where one can get better and better, and that's the main news I have about this question; seeing that, it becomes easy to do the right thing.

P.S. Someone mentioned the freerolls (rolls, heheh). They cost time and energy, that's money.

Re: Limit material.
 

No, it's more basic, worse, full ring, offline. Read it only if you like history, and then add the Middle limit holdem poker (full ring, offline, what looks like 40% loose though they said 1/3 or so, but it doesn't look like it) to it and you have a piece of history, though still to get the more complete picture and how much it took to get the details right, plenty more material is needed, and don't forget the turbo texas holdem limit software and Abdul's preflop strategy, and Pokerroom.com's preflop stats from their site, that are also important steps in the history.

But the Stox book is the first on the line of shorthanded limit holdem after the theory of poker for more general reading. One other sh book is also out and the third one is soon out too.

Also, there's a shorthanded forum somewhere, though nothing is going to be much good in selecting the books as it seems people are giving lots of books and maybe a piece of them is something one needs. Though one can get those books often up to for free, and they do not cost much if anything compared to winnings, but they cost time and energy and it's useless to read some books one does not need to read.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
How has HEPFAP been for you all? Is it worth reading in lue of Stox's book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Different stuff. The Stox book is most useful for when you find yourself in a heads up pot with a tough player, or at most a 3 way pot.

Small Stakes Holdem is best for games that have 5 or 6 players average per flop. Holdem for Advanced Players sort of covers both. But HEPFAP is most useful against semi-skilled players that are somewhat aware but not highly advanced.

If you play a variety of different levels you need all of these books.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How has HEPFAP been for you all? Is it worth reading in lue of Stox's book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Different stuff. The Stox book is most useful for when you find yourself in a heads up pot with a tough player, or at most a 3 way pot.

Small Stakes Holdem is best for games that have 5 or 6 players average per flop. Holdem for Advanced Players sort of covers both. But HEPFAP is most useful against semi-skilled players that are somewhat aware but not highly advanced.

If you play a variety of different levels you need all of these books.

[/ QUOTE ]

the games that are listed in Small Stakes don't exist online anymore, unless you go to play money, or to .1/.2

When I was rebuilding my roll last year, I was bonus whoring 1/2 absolute full ring. It was the hardest game I've ever played in. And I played up to 5-10 on pokerroom, and 10-20 short on AP now. The 5 to a flop days are over, unless you are playing 4=8 live.

Re: Limit material.
 

5k hands a day? WTF

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How has HEPFAP been for you all? Is it worth reading in lue of Stox's book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Different stuff. The Stox book is most useful for when you find yourself in a heads up pot with a tough player, or at most a 3 way pot.

Small Stakes Holdem is best for games that have 5 or 6 players average per flop. Holdem for Advanced Players sort of covers both. But HEPFAP is most useful against semi-skilled players that are somewhat aware but not highly advanced.

If you play a variety of different levels you need all of these books.

[/ QUOTE ]

the games that are listed in Small Stakes don't exist online anymore, unless you go to play money, or to .1/.2

When I was rebuilding my roll last year, I was bonus whoring 1/2 absolute full ring. It was the hardest game I've ever played in. And I played up to 5-10 on pokerroom, and 10-20 short on AP now. The 5 to a flop days are over, unless you are playing 20-40 live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Limit material.
 

Yes, Small Stakes pretty much only applies to 5/10 and lower brick and mortar games.

Re: Limit material.
 

I understand why there is so much sarcasm against OP. It reminds me what I heard from 2+2 1 year ago when I was claiming that I am going "pro" after just 1 month of playing. I am trying to make a serious suggestion here since I have been there.

At first, OP, you must read "every" good book out there. Re-read them every once in a while. Right now there are only 2 books about Shorthanded fix limit games, so just read them a few times. Your theory is correct, 6 tabling $0.5/$1 can make a comfortable living if you don't have a family to support. This career offers a lot of freedom, so you might want to take the advantage of it and grind out harder when you are still young. Make sure to move up to $1/$2 as soon as you have 600BB and move down when it's only 300BB left. It might lead to higher variance but you will definitely learn more on $1/$2 and improve faster even if you have to move up and move down repeatedly for a few times in your career.

For those ppl who thinks 6 tabling $0.5/$1 for $4000 monthly is pathetic, you guys are probably too lucky. As far as I know 90% of population in this world find it nearly impossible to make $4000 after tax before they hit 30 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Limit material.
 

You have to pay tax on poker winnings if you are in the US. I'm finding it implausible that someone is making $4000/mo on .5/1 without moving up. Working an office job is probably better than playing 120,000 hands a month.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]

The 5 to a flop days are over, unless you are playing 4=8 live.


[/ QUOTE ]

Or $80/160 live.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
It reminds me what I heard from 2+2 1 year ago when I was claiming that I am going "pro" after just 1 month of playing.


[/ QUOTE ]

No offense dude, but was/is a horrible idea. I'm glad it worked out for you, but I would talk anybody but my worst enemy and poker prodigies out of doing that.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

The 5 to a flop days are over, unless you are playing 4=8 live.


[/ QUOTE ]

Or $80/160 live.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never seen such a game. Where is this?

Re: Limit material.
 

beeing a pro at 1-2$ is def possible (however I dont think it's cool if you have wife, kids, mortage payments...)

to win at stars low limit you dint have to read (and understand) mathematics of poker. It is def a very good book but ne need to have a somehow deeper understanding of different poker games (not just hold'em)

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand why there is so much sarcasm against OP. It reminds me what I heard from 2+2 1 year ago when I was claiming that I am going "pro" after just 1 month of playing. I am trying to make a serious suggestion here since I have been there.

At first, OP, you must read "every" good book out there. Re-read them every once in a while. Right now there are only 2 books about Shorthanded fix limit games, so just read them a few times. Your theory is correct, 6 tabling $0.5/$1 can make a comfortable living if you don't have a family to support. This career offers a lot of freedom, so you might want to take the advantage of it and grind out harder when you are still young. Make sure to move up to $1/$2 as soon as you have 600BB and move down when it's only 300BB left. It might lead to higher variance but you will definitely learn more on $1/$2 and improve faster even if you have to move up and move down repeatedly for a few times in your career.

For those ppl who thinks 6 tabling $0.5/$1 for $4000 monthly is pathetic, you guys are probably too lucky. As far as I know 90% of population in this world find it nearly impossible to make $4000 after tax before they hit 30 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


a pro playing 0.50/1.00 is pathetic, and retarded.

playing 120,000 hands a month is just not sustainable. You might last 3, 4, 5 months, but 2 years down the road, do you really want to play 5,000 hands a day, 25 out of 30 days every month, of every year? The answer is you will kill yourself, or want to.

Play 5000 hands of 6max, playing 6tables at a time. so that is about 500 hands an hour, that's 9 hours a day, 25 days a month.

Good luck with that.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have to pay tax on poker winnings if you are in the US. I'm finding it implausible that someone is making $4000/mo on .5/1 without moving up. Working an office job is probably better than playing 120,000 hands a month.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can the tax department find out how much you are making through poker? In that case, ppl who loses money on poker but make income from his regular job are able to file a tax deduction too?

It isn't an issue for most other countries at least. So yeah, if they have a way to find out how much tax you have to pay exactly, then the situation in US is very different since $4000/monthly means like $6000 actual profit/monthly?

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
No offense dude, but was/is a horrible idea. I'm glad it worked out for you, but I would talk anybody but my worst enemy and poker prodigies out of doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your comment is very reasonable. Talking about the % of ppl who works it out in the end, I now realize it's less than 5%. Glad that I am talented enough to beat mid stake games at least. I have learned way more lessons than I ever expected to exist in this career. Every beginner thinks this career is easier to achieve than it actually is, and I was, no exception, one of them

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]


a pro playing 0.50/1.00 is pathetic, and retarded.

playing 120,000 hands a month is just not sustainable. You might last 3, 4, 5 months, but 2 years down the road, do you really want to play 5,000 hands a day, 25 out of 30 days every month, of every year? The answer is you will kill yourself, or want to.

Play 5000 hands of 6max, playing 6tables at a time. so that is about 500 hands an hour, that's 9 hours a day, 25 days a month.

Good luck with that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything you said. The question is, will he keep staying @ $0.5/$1? If anyone spends 6 months and realize that he can't win at $1/$2 level, I would suggest him to give up too. The thing is, if you don't have to pay tax for your winnings, a full time $1/$2 pro is already in a leading group (Income wise) among the world population under the age of 30.

I ain't sure if OP has considered all these or he just has a quick beginner's plan and think "[censored] this is easy money" before a long term goal. I would say that being a pro as low stake as $3/$6 can be pretty profitable while enjoying a lot of freedom/leisure time in his life.

Like I said, most players in this community are lucky people. I for one don't really think it's reasonable to expect a 5 figures income per month by clicking mouse 3 hours a day/20 days a month when you are in your mid 20s. Therefore I don't think the OP's plan is pathetic at all if he has planned to move up at some point. Considering playing 6 hours of $3/$6 a day running @ 1BB/100, 22 days a month by 6 tabling will give you something close to $6000 including FPP value. Don't forget that you can manage your own time and arrange holiday etc. I can't really find many jobs that are able to compete really...

Re: Limit material.
 

is this thread worth reading?

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this thread worth reading?

[/ QUOTE ]


no, it's just a couple of wanna be poser "pros" talking about playing 1,500,000 hands a year at .50/1.00 to make $50,000 a year before taxes.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is this thread worth reading?

[/ QUOTE ]


no, it's just a couple of wanna be poser "pros" talking about playing 1,500,000 hands a year at .50/1.00 to make $50,000 a year before taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not really poser since they are doing something for a profession and are probably putting in the same amount of time that they would working at any other job. I'm not saying it's going to be fun playing 5-10 tables of 0.5/1 every day for 9 hours, but it could be done. However, if you could sustain 1.5-2BB/100 at that level, under those conditions, you could probably just move up to 2/4 at least and work half as much for the same money.

Re: Limit material.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is this thread worth reading?

[/ QUOTE ]


no, it's just a couple of wanna be poser "pros" talking about playing 1,500,000 hands a year at .50/1.00 to make $50,000 a year before taxes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not really poser since they are doing something for a profession and are probably putting in the same amount of time that they would working at any other job. I'm not saying it's going to be fun playing 5-10 tables of 0.5/1 every day for 9 hours, but it could be done. However, if you could sustain 1.5-2BB/100 at that level, under those conditions, you could probably just move up to 2/4 at least and work half as much for the same money.

[/ QUOTE ]


I could also make 40K a year if I stood at an intersection with a cup every day for 10 hours. Would that be a professional?


Its all about what you are willing to do. For me, if someone says they are a professional, that means that they work a certain amount and get paid.

Also, if you are a professional you are actually decent at what you do. If you are good enough to "go pro", you shouldn't be wasting your time at baby stakes.

I will say it one more time, anyone playing below 3-6 is not a pro. They are just grinding out some cash.

Seriously though, 1.4 million hands a year at less than 1/2?

At some point, you would think they would get decent enough to go for broke and play 2=4