I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Does anyone have one?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

you mean why she has been picked by the elites

or

you mean you haven't heard any good rationalization that is used to propagandize the people?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Her tepid personal response is likely to moderate her policy and political choices while in office. All in all, if she's elected, there won't be much change in the status quo that the American people don't support. It all depends on how much you think the status quo is acceptable - as the widely lauded independents and centrists typically do. If you think politics could use less partisanship and radicalism (rabid neo-cons, etc.) and more pragmatism in the form of technocrats, she's not a horrible choice.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Her tepid personal response is likely to moderate her policy and political choices while in office. All in all, if she's elected, there won't be much change in the status quo that the American people don't support. It all depends on how much you think the status quo is acceptable - as the widely lauded independents and centrists typically do. If you think politics could use less partisanship and radicalism (rabid neo-cons, etc.) and more pragmatism in the form of technocrats, she's not a horrible choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Her tepid personal response is likely to moderate her policy and political choices while in office. All in all, if she's elected, there won't be much change in the status quo that the American people don't support. It all depends on how much you think the status quo is acceptable - as the widely lauded independents and centrists typically do. If you think politics could use less partisanship and radicalism (rabid neo-cons, etc.) and more pragmatism in the form of technocrats, she's not a horrible choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

bingo

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause that's what gets people excited. She won't [censored] things up too much worse than they already are.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

She's not Rudy Guiliani

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
She's not Rudy Guiliani

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

She's a woman and we need to have a woman president or all the European countries will think we're a bunch of sexist jerks.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
She's a woman and we need to have a woman president or all the European countries will think we're a bunch of sexist jerks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure about this?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Problem with having her for a woman president - it could be another 220 years before we have our next female president.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
She's a woman and we need to have a woman president or all the European countries will think we're a bunch of sexist jerks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh [censored]......they're onto us.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

I think there's a few issues that Clinton would do well on:

Social Security
Social spending/welfare
Health Care
War on Terror excluding Iraq
Picking Supreme Court Justices

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have way too much money and it's about time you shared more of it for the common good.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

She's Bill's wife. That's her main appeal. During the Clinton administration the economy did well, better fiscal discipline, welfare reform, etc. Although a Republican led Congress contributed as well, Bill arguably gets most of the credit. With her you're getting 8 more years of a Clinton and Bill will be in the Whitehouse to provide guidance.

There's nothing really noteworthy about her other than that. I have my doubts as to whether she'd be a Senator if she wasn't associated with an ex president that was/is a political force.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a few issues that Clinton would do well on:

Social Security
Social spending/welfare
Health Care
War on Terror excluding Iraq
Picking Supreme Court Justices

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the only thing I would agree with there is the Supreme Court justices. Edwards would be way better on all the other issues.

OTOH, she isn't Rudy Giuliani, so I guess I'd vote for her in the general, though. But that's it. No money, no volunteering, just show up, vote, and then take a shower because I'll feel filthy.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

One of the main criticisms of her is that she's cold and calculating, though admittedly smart. Not only does this tend to suggest that she will try to appease the center, it suggests that she won't do anything crazy.

For me personally, I put a lot of stock in how a candidate runs a campaign. If the campaign appears to run smoothly and efficiently, as hers does, it makes me believe that the candidate is a competent manager. For the same reason, I hold it against McCain that his campaign reportedly ran out of money fast, as that seems to reflect poor management skills.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Picking Supreme Court Justices

[/ QUOTE ]

*shudder*

Yes, picking justices who will violate the Constitution wholesale is "doing well".

*cries*

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Health care? Isn't her health care plan just to force people to buy insurance? Thats ridiculous.

I don't support universal health care, but any attempt to socialize health care that includes the current insurance companies is just silly.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a few issues that Clinton would do well on:

Social Security

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

[ QUOTE ]
Social spending/welfare

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

[ QUOTE ]
Health Care

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

[ QUOTE ]
War on Terror excluding Iraq

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

[ QUOTE ]
Picking Supreme Court Justices

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think there's a few issues that Clinton would do well on:

Social Security
Social spending/welfare
Health Care
War on Terror excluding Iraq
Picking Supreme Court Justices

[/ QUOTE ]
lol

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Health care? Isn't her health care plan just to force people to buy insurance? Thats ridiculous.

I don't support universal health care, but any attempt to socialize health care that includes the current insurance companies is just silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I tend to agree with this. If you want to do universal health care, I think the whole idea to be disgusting and evil, but at least do it right.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Social Security: Maintain status quo
Social spending: Maintain existing programs, but more money
Health Care: Not a whole lot to choose from here since the Dem candidates proposals are pretty similar, so this is just a generic Dem>GOP thing
War on Terror: This is mostly about surrounding yourself with the right advisers. I suspect that a Cabinet formed by Sen. Clinton will contain many of the figures we saw in her Husband's Administration, which fought terrorism the right way IMO
Supreme Court Justices: Another generic Dem>GOP thing

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]

War on Terror: This is mostly about surrounding yourself with the right advisers. I suspect that a Cabinet formed by Sen. Clinton will contain many of the figures we saw in her Husband's Administration, which fought terrorism the right way IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that worked out real well:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...C_1993_ATF.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._bombing_1.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._bombing_2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ole_damage.jpg

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

War on Terror: This is mostly about surrounding yourself with the right advisers. I suspect that a Cabinet formed by Sen. Clinton will contain many of the figures we saw in her Husband's Administration, which fought terrorism the right way IMO

Is the same group that let Osama Bin Laden slip through their hands?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
She's Bill's wife. That's her main appeal. During the Clinton administration the economy did well, better fiscal discipline, welfare reform, etc. Although a Republican led Congress contributed as well, Bill arguably gets most of the credit. With her you're getting 8 more years of a Clinton and Bill will be in the Whitehouse to provide guidance.


[/ QUOTE ]

Repub led congress contributed a lot. This put government in deadlock, one of the best situations available.

If only the democrats were reasonable opposition leaders we could have a similar situation now.

Bill's tenure appears fiscally responsible, but what happened to that social security fund Americans were supposed to inherit?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
War on Terror: This is mostly about surrounding yourself with the right advisers. I suspect that a Cabinet formed by Sen. Clinton will contain many of the figures we saw in her Husband's Administration, which fought terrorism the right way IMO

Is the same group that let Osama Bin Laden slip through their hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

about 8-10 times according to Michael Scheure's accounts.

Also the advisors that led the brilliant bush like missions in kosovo and somalia.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Social Security: Maintain status quo


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the status quo at least partly responsible for why the system is going bankrupt?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Rudy = Big government nanny state + War + Tyranny

Hillary = Big government nanny state + War + less Tyranny

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Social Security: Maintain status quo
Social spending: Maintain existing programs, but more money
Health Care: Not a whole lot to choose from here since the Dem candidates proposals are pretty similar, so this is just a generic Dem>GOP thing

[/ QUOTE ]

The money for these is going to come from where?

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Social Security: Maintain status quo
Social spending: Maintain existing programs, but more money
Health Care: Not a whole lot to choose from here since the Dem candidates proposals are pretty similar, so this is just a generic Dem>GOP thing

[/ QUOTE ]

The money for these is going to come from where?

[/ QUOTE ]

The evil rich people LDO

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rudy = Big government nanny state + War + Tyranny

Hillary = Big government nanny state + War + less Tyranny

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I think I would rather have Rudy than Hillary if it comes down to that.

1) Congress and Presidency divided, so it will be difficult to get things done, and the less government does the better. Dems in both branches would be a free-for-all.

2) Giuliani is somewhat socially liberal. The Robertson endorsement might change that, but we'll see. I feel like we're in danger of Hillary pushing "family values" even more than Rudy because she's more "political" and will pander to whoever she needs to pander to, including evangelicals.

3) National health care ftl.

4) The war(s) oh well - hopefully Congress would keep Giuliani in line.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

I think OP is on to something, rather than have a campaign slogans and sstuff (remeber bush was saying he was gonna "restore honor to whitehouse in 2000), hillary mihgt just shut up and say nothing .

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

http://www.goldpanners.com/Seasons/2...ry_dogpile.jpg

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
War on Terror: This is mostly about surrounding yourself with the right advisers. I suspect that a Cabinet formed by Sen. Clinton will contain many of the figures we saw in her Husband's Administration, which fought terrorism the right way IMO

Is the same group that let Osama Bin Laden slip through their hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fwiw, I can't stand Bill Clinton. I believe he ruined the Democratic Party by moving the party to the right. However, it's either willfully deceptive or purely ignorant to say things like this about the Clinton record on terrorism.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rudy = Big government nanny state + War + Tyranny

Hillary = Big government nanny state + War + less Tyranny

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I think I would rather have Rudy than Hillary if it comes down to that.

1) Congress and Presidency divided, so it will be difficult to get things done, and the less government does the better. Dems in both branches would be a free-for-all.

2) Giuliani is somewhat socially liberal. The Robertson endorsement might change that, but we'll see. I feel like we're in danger of Hillary pushing "family values" even more than Rudy because she's more "political" and will pander to whoever she needs to pander to, including evangelicals.

3) National health care ftl.

4) The war(s) oh well - hopefully Congress would keep Giuliani in line.

[/ QUOTE ]


See, the problem is that with the current Democratic Congress, they keep on funding the war, and giving the President more spying powers.

It was under total Republican rule that we had big government programs, like prescription drug and no child left behind. I guess I don't see any diff between any of the media darling candidates, save for minor, minor differences. But their baisc attitudes towards the role of government is basically the same (make it bigger and stronger).

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rudy = Big government nanny state + War + Tyranny

Hillary = Big government nanny state + War + less Tyranny

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I think I would rather have Rudy than Hillary if it comes down to that.

1) Congress and Presidency divided, so it will be difficult to get things done, and the less government does the better. Dems in both branches would be a free-for-all.

2) Giuliani is somewhat socially liberal. The Robertson endorsement might change that, but we'll see. I feel like we're in danger of Hillary pushing "family values" even more than Rudy because she's more "political" and will pander to whoever she needs to pander to, including evangelicals.

3) National health care ftl.

4) The war(s) oh well - hopefully Congress would keep Giuliani in line.

[/ QUOTE ]


See, the problem is that with the current Democratic Congress, they keep on funding the war, and giving the President more spying powers.

It was under total Republican rule that we had big government programs, like prescription drug and no child left behind. I guess I don't see any diff between any of the media darling candidates, save for minor, minor differences. But their baisc attitudes towards the role of government is basically the same (make it bigger and stronger).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right so we don't want total Democratic rule either as there will be even bigger issues like national health care.

And Hillary isn't even against the war.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rudy = Big government nanny state + War + Tyranny

Hillary = Big government nanny state + War + less Tyranny

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, but I think I would rather have Rudy than Hillary if it comes down to that.

1) Congress and Presidency divided, so it will be difficult to get things done, and the less government does the better. Dems in both branches would be a free-for-all.

2) Giuliani is somewhat socially liberal. The Robertson endorsement might change that, but we'll see. I feel like we're in danger of Hillary pushing "family values" even more than Rudy because she's more "political" and will pander to whoever she needs to pander to, including evangelicals.

3) National health care ftl.

4) The war(s) oh well - hopefully Congress would keep Giuliani in line.

[/ QUOTE ]


See, the problem is that with the current Democratic Congress, they keep on funding the war, and giving the President more spying powers.

It was under total Republican rule that we had big government programs, like prescription drug and no child left behind. I guess I don't see any diff between any of the media darling candidates, save for minor, minor differences. But their baisc attitudes towards the role of government is basically the same (make it bigger and stronger).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right so we don't want total Democratic rule either as there will be even bigger issues like national health care.

And Hillary isn't even against the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm more afraid of more of a police state, than I am of nationalized health care. I mean they tried hillarycare (the first time around) in 1993 and it failed miserably, even with a democratic congress.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

Really, I'm being deceptive or ignorant when asking the question " Is the same group that let Osama Bin Laden slip through their hands?".

It seems to be a popular chat by the left (and judging from your comment I can only presume you are left of center) that Clinton ruined to Democrat Party, however they always seem to appear to defend him even when there is justified criticism leveled at him.

Incidentally there may well be evidence that Clinton did in fact let Bin Laden "slip through his hand"

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone have one?

[/ QUOTE ]

She represents the last best hope for a conservative Republican party 5 years from now. If the Republicans insist on building their house founded upon Rudy then I say burn it down, vote for Hillary.

Re: I have yet to hear a single good argument for Clinton.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally there may well be evidence that Clinton did in fact let Bin Laden "slip through his hand"


[/ QUOTE ]

"May". That's the best you can do? All the real, you know, actually verifiable, evidence is completely to the contrary.

I leap to anyone's defense when the mouthbreathers criticizing them are wrong. Terrorism was, ironically, about the only thing he did right.

And it's called the Democratic Party. Do you think it would look stupid if someone were running around saying Republic Party? Yeah, thought so. That's how you look.