San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

I was at Bay 101 yesterday (Thursday 11/1), and one of the dealers said that they'll be adding nine more new tables in January 2008. She also added that at that time, they'll also be allowed to offer No Limit cash game action, instead of spread limit. This was confirmed by a floor person. Later that day, at Garden City, I heard that GC will be permitted to do the same as well. Neither location had any information on whether they'd also be allowed to offer jackpots & bonuses.

What has anyone heard about this? If you have links to articles discussing this, please post. Thanks!

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

Hmm I haven't heard about this. The no NL (actually maximum $200 bet) rules are driven by San Jose city ordinances. Bay 101 is also currently limited to 40 tables (I think.. not sure of the exact number), but this is decided individually for each establishment and I guess they are getting that limit raised.

I think this is great if true. Having true NL games will make the games better IMO, although the spread games are currently sick juicy anyways. I guess this would also mean that they could spread limit games bigger than 100/200.

Adding 9 new tables is always great and will definitely help shorten the lists especially on the weekends. I'm not really sure where they will ut them though.. Right now the room is fairly comfortable with the tables not on top of each other, but 9 more tables (if they put them in the main room) will start to cramp it up Bellagio style!

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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Hmm I haven't heard about this. The no NL (actually maximum $200 bet) rules are driven by San Jose city ordinances. Bay 101 is also currently limited to 40 tables (I think.. not sure of the exact number), but this is decided individually for each establishment and I guess they are getting that limit raised.

I think this is great if true. Having true NL games will make the games better IMO, although the spread games are currently sick juicy anyways. I guess this would also mean that they could spread limit games bigger than 100/200.

Adding 9 new tables is always great and will definitely help shorten the lists especially on the weekends. I'm not really sure where they will ut them though.. Right now the room is fairly comfortable with the tables not on top of each other, but 9 more tables (if they put them in the main room) will start to cramp it up Bellagio style!

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At Bay 101 at least, it sounded like they will put the new tables in that meeting room space behind the main poker area (to the right of the sports bar). As you may remember, that's where they moved everything when they renovated earlier this year.

As for Garden City, well, they do have all that extra space from the restaurant that they ripped out. Please ask around when you're next there.


Anyone have anything more concrete than my mere rumor?

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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I think this is great if true. Having true NL games will make the games better IMO, although the spread games are currently sick juicy anyways.

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If true, this could suck if some of the people who make the 20 and 40 limit games so great decide to gambooooool at NL instead and go broke in the first week.

I'd better start learning how to play NL just in case.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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I think this is great if true. Having true NL games will make the games better IMO, although the spread games are currently sick juicy anyways.

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If true, this could suck if some of the people who make the 20 and 40 limit games so great decide to gambooooool at NL instead and go broke in the first week.

I'd better start learning how to play NL just in case.

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I don't think having NL games is really going to pull any additional 20 or 40 players. The 5-spread and 10-spread games (especially the 10) have already pulled the ones that wanted to go that direction already. I think the games will be better because people are going to suck even worse (in a good way [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]) in a non-capped bet game.

I wouldn't really worry to much about people going broke either. I see people drop 3K in the 20 and be back the next day....I'm not worried about the fish going busto.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

This is interesting stuff....to a new Bay Area resident....Viva Las Vegas no more [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

Seriously doubt it.
As mentioned, the 40 table limit and $200 max bet are written into the city ordinance.
An amendment to the ordinance that required the two clubs to close 2am-6am and prohibiting 'backlining' in the Asian Games is still stuck in the courts (the city has backed off now that they really need the tax revenue, but the law is still on the books).
My understanding is that the state has okayed the changes, but it is still up to the city of San Jose to change the ordinance. Don't hold your breath.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

any1 know what kind of stakes they might add?
i play micro stakes so I'm looking for the lowest spread games.

To my knowledge bay101 lowest game is 2/4
My ideal game would be anything under NL200.
Would this be a reality? Or would NL400 be the lowest game spread?

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

2/4 hasn't gone at Bay 101 in months. Too much demand for higher games. If it happens, I would guess the spread limit games would vanish, to be replaced with 2/3/5(because of the drop) NL and 5/10 at least, maybe higher on weekends. Maybe a bigger game than 100/200 LHE on weekends, although most of the time the 100/200 isn't even full.

I can't see anything smaller than 2/3/5 because they want to drop $5 and there has to be some kind of pot that goes to the winner if there's no flop.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

The 2/4 does not run at Bay 101, except perhaps at off hours.

Garden City still spreads 2/4. Last Friday night Garden City had 2 tables of 2/4 going and 5 or 6 tables of 3/6. The 3/6 list was very long last Friday, probably because of being close to the first of the month. I have occasionally seen 3 tables of 2/4 running.

Garden City also has a 3/100 spread limit game with 1/3 blinds and 100 buyin. This is probably the smallest spread game in San Jose.

The San Jose mayor who was trying to force Garden City and Bay 101 to close is now out of office after being accused of accepting bribes, but I am not sure what the political environment for poker is in San Jose right now. The 200 maximum bet is a city ordnance which would have to be changed to allow NL. I would be more likely to believe more tables, which might allow for more LL games.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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The San Jose mayor who was trying to force Garden City and Bay 101 to close is now out of office after being accused of accepting bribes,

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To be accurate, Gonzales was term limited out.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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To be accurate, Gonzales was term limited out.


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Yes, I forgot. They tried to force him to resign, but he refused and served out his term. The criminal case against him was eventually thrown out of court by a judge.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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Garden City also has a 3/100 spread limit game with 1/3 blinds and 100 buyin. This is probably the smallest spread game in San Jose.

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Not to be nitty, but in that 3/100 spread, blinds got changed to 3-2-1 w/ $5 drop instead of $4 about a month ago. I found this out the hard way [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

I think your information isn't any good. I haven't heard anything, and I think the liklihood of either of these things happening is about the same as a huge meteor coming down and wiping out half of human civilization.

I hope I'm wrong, though (about the games, not the meteor).

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

It was mentioned to me by the main board guy Friday night that they will soon get approval to add more tables as well. The old rule was maximum of 40 tables of any sort and max single bet of $200. He did not mention any removal of the $200 rule only adding more tables.

The added tables would really only matter much on Fri/Sat aft/eve. The rest of the time wait times are reasonable.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

That GC is still in business at all is entirely due to the city of San Jose wishing it so. GC has had financial troubles for at least a decade, the most public of which are the ongoing efforts of the landlords to shut it down due to problems with rent not getting covered.

I cannot imagine anyone protesting more tables getting added at GC. It solves many problems while creating none.

Re: true NL games killing the 20/40 and 40/80 LHE games, I was about to say I couldnt imagine it impacting it much because gamboolers love to gambool, not go broke in one hand. Then I remembered that the Big Game at Lucky Chances basically shut down the 9/18 LHE kill game there... so Im not sure what to think on that one.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

What makes you think there's anything remotely close to sane with regard to San Jose city politics? ... and that's exactly what all this is about. That said, I'll shake some trees and see what I can find out.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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Re: true NL games killing the 20/40 and 40/80 LHE games, I was about to say I couldnt imagine it impacting it much because gamboolers love to gambool, not go broke in one hand. Then I remembered that the Big Game at Lucky Chances basically shut down the 9/18 LHE kill game there... so Im not sure what to think on that one.

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I didn't started playing at Lucky Chances till after the 2/3/5 and 10/10/20 spread & No Limit games came in, but from what everyone tells me, I agree that that's what killed the 9/18 and 20/40 limit holdem games. Every now and then I tell the board to put me up on the 9/18, but it seems like the board operator doesn't even want to bother writing it down. As I hate Artichoke Joe's, I would rather play 9/18 at Lucky Chances than the 15/30 at AJ's. It beats driving down to SJ, or going over the bridge to the Oaks...but the 9/18 at Lucky's seems like a thing of the past now.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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Re: true NL games killing the 20/40 and 40/80 LHE games, I was about to say I couldnt imagine it impacting it much because gamboolers love to gambool, not go broke in one hand. Then I remembered that the Big Game at Lucky Chances basically shut down the 9/18 LHE kill game there... so Im not sure what to think on that one.

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I didn't started playing at Lucky Chances till after the 2/3/5 and 10/10/20 spread & No Limit games came in, but from what everyone tells me, I agree that that's what killed the 9/18 and 20/40 limit holdem games. Every now and then I tell the board to put me up on the 9/18, but it seems like the board operator doesn't even want to bother writing it down. As I hate Artichoke Joe's, I would rather play 9/18 at Lucky Chances than the 15/30 at AJ's. It beats driving down to SJ, or going over the bridge to the Oaks...but the 9/18 at Lucky's seems like a thing of the past now.

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i have also made a point of getting 9/18 on the board everytime i played there. after a few months of this, mae finally admitted that they simply do not spread it any more, and put it on the board simply as a courtesy.

and i agree completely with your feelings about AJs.

tonight im going to play the 15/30 at oaks for the first time. i sincerely hope its a decent game, ive heard good things about it. otherwise im back to the 1 hour drives to GC, although i hear there is a 10/20 in sacramento that i could actually imagine making the trip out to play if its live enough..

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

I talked to Mike and another red badge (Mark?) tonight. They said negotiations with the city will resume Dec. 11. They're trying to get unrestricted back line betting, the ability to stay open 24 hours, 9 new tables, and NLHE. They seem to think that Garden City may hold up the process, since GC doesn't really want Bay 101 to get more tables. They didn't really state much of an opinion on how likely any of this is to go through, though.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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They're trying to get unrestricted back line betting, the ability to stay open 24 hours,

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1999 ordinance (Ord. 25982.) that has never been enforced because of court cases by Bay101 and GC. The city council has to change the code:

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16.16.010 Limitation on hours of operation.
A. Cardrooms are prohibited from operating or allowing any gaming between the hours of 2:00 AM and 6:00 AM, notwithstanding any contrary provision in any land use permit applicable to a Cardroom that may allow for unrestricted hours of operation.
....
16.18.070 Limitations on bets.
C. No cardroom permittee, owner, or employee shall allow, permit, or suffer any person to make a backline bet or wager on any game played on the cardroom premises on or after August 31, 2001, except to the extent authorized by an extension pursuant to Chapter 16.20.


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I doubt that the city would just let the cardrooms win their court cases on these two points. It would set a bad precedent.


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9 new tables, and NLHE.

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9 tables is the magic number. An increase of 25% (10 tables) or more would require an election, under state law.

But...

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16.04.010 Policy.
There shall be no expansion of cardroom gambling in the city without first obtaining the majority approval of the voters of the city.
(Ord. 25982.)

16.04.020 Cardroom and card table limitation.
A. The maximum number of card tables permitted in the city shall be eighty-one tables, unless and until otherwise authorized by a vote of the people.
B. The maximum number of cardrooms permitted in the city shall be three, unless and until otherwise authorized by a vote of the people.
C. The maximum number of card tables at any one cardroom shall be forty, unless and until otherwise authorized by a vote of the people.
(Ord. 25982.)
16.04.030 Expansion of gambling.
A. The city council shall not take any action to expand the amount of cardroom gambling in the city unless and until otherwise authorized by a vote of the people.
B. For purposes of this section, expansion shall mean:
1. Any increase in the number of cardrooms or card tables as specified in Section 16.04.020 above;
2. Any increase in bet limits as specified in this Title;
3. The use of slot machines or devices, or gambling devices as defined by state gambling law;
4. Any form of gambling which was not allowed under this Code on or before June 30, 1996, or which is prohibited under state gambling law on or before June 30, 1996; or
5. Any increase in the total number of games beyond the twenty-one authorized pursuant to resolution number 63771, adopted June 9, 1992.
C. Nothing herein shall limit the authority of the administrator, to substitute games on a one-for-one basis.
(Ord. 25982.)



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it seems that the city code itself says they need the approval of the voters, not just the politicos. So any change will be awhile in coming.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

So I was there yesterday and talked to Rich (non-White Rich) about this and he confirmed both. The removal of the $200 cap seems to be proceeding well although no time table yet defined.

He mentioned that the 9 table addition is kinda getting beat down at the moment so no one really has any idea where it stands.

My guess regarding NL is they will most likely spread 2/5 and a 5/10NL games with most certainly a button blind (although it may be removed, but I doubt it. Of course during Shooting Star time period, you will see larger NL games with a 10/20 going frequently I would guess.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

Wow im really excited for this... I really hope they get a consistent 10/20 NL game going

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

Wow, I sure hope you guys aren't getting my hopes up for nothing. This could be HUGE.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

I talked to Mike, the shift manager on Friday nights. The issues to changing are as follows:
1) WHile Bay 101 has plenty of room to add tables, Garden City doesn't have the room. So he thinks they will fail in their quest to add 9 tables;
2) Bay 101 doesn't really want to have no limit. They feel it will kill all their 8-16, 20-40, 40-80, and 100-200 tables, like it did at some of the other Bay Area Casino's that added no limit. (Lucky Chances is a prime example, I think).

Personally, I would love to see the additional tables because Fri-Sat-Sun, the waits are horrendous. I would also love to see the 8-16 tables moved to 10-20, so we wouldn't have to use all the damn $2 chips on the big bets...but that won't happen as Bay 101 thinks the players like having those huge stacks of chips. That is why they $5 chips on the 20-40 games rather than $10 chips...

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

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1) WHile Bay 101 has plenty of room to add tables, Garden City doesn't have the room. So he thinks they will fail in their quest to add 9 tables;


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This does not make sense. Garden City ripped out the restaurant in front and has lots of room to add more tables there, if they can use that space. It has been just sitting there vacant for months. Many months ago I heard rumors that they were going to move the Asian games there, but apparently the city of San Jose blocked that. They ripped out some offices on the mezzanine around the main floor and moved some of the Asian games there. They then moved the tables on the side mezzanine onto the main floor. They now have a huge waiting area on the side mezzanine.

There might be some question as to whether Garden City wants nine more tables or wants Bay 101 to have nine more tables. Garden City may be afraid that shorter lists at Bay 101 will hurt their business.

Re: San Jose: more tables and No Limit action in 2008?
 

Mike mentioned that all poker games had to be on one level of building. Though this didn't quite make sense to me, because at one time Garden City had poker on main floor and mezzanine.

At any rate, everything having to do with San Jose laws and their enforcement as it relates to actual practice seems very mysterious.
As best I can tell, the new mayor is not hostile to gambling like the previous one have been...