yet another river checkraise
 

ipoker 5/10 ~$1k stacks, some unknown, tight so far opens co, i call black 88 from SB, flop is 3h6h7x, i checkcall about 3/4 pot, turn 7h, check check, river Qc, i check, he bets $210 into $260, i shove.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

i dont think hes calling.
villians sn?

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
I shove

[/ QUOTE ]

why?

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

because i dont think he can beat trip sevens, boats or flushes very often.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

I think it's very good.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
because i dont think he can beat trip sevens, boats or flushes very often.

[/ QUOTE ]
weak argument IMO.. he may not be able to ever beat these hands with his line but it still could be bad

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

lol

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

Even though I put IMO, my statement is 100% true.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

yes my argument was weak, and your "argument" was strong as superman. what the [censored] are you on about.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

I wasn't making an argument. I was just pointing out that the hand shouldn't be looked at that way. To determine if it's good or not should be based on whether or not he can make big calls or what kind of image you have because I don't think he ever has a hand that beats what you're repping. He should be either calling with his whole range or none of it.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

craig,

Do you really think Luego made this move because he thinks it won't fold out better hands or something?

OP,

I think it's good as I'm CRAI on this river with a flush whenever I have it and I'm gonna have it more than he will here IMO. He also has to VB that river a lot and his line is consistent with not flush or boat hands.

Also, how often do you CR a flush draw on this flop?

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

I'm saying since I don't think villain ever has a hand better than what OP is repping, then villain's entire range is a bluffcatcher.

So, it doesn't really matter how strong villain's range is. Deciding whether or not this is good should be determined by other things.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

OP, are you really check-calling this flop w/ sets/top2/and FD?
And would u check-shove on the river hands like 78?

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

Villain will check behind lots of things and VB them on the river that are better than 88, IMO. Either way, it's not Leugo is a donk. He obviously considered that his hand might be a bluff catcher and decided shoving is better.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

you're misunderstanding my posts

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

standard

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

craig,

I don't think so, but whatever.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

like

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

phresh,

i will c/c a flushdraw a decent amount. i may decrease that frequency on this board texture tho. i would also checkraise the river allin with 7x or better most of the time. but that doesnt really matter all that much. i just like my line since a) i will get to showdown my decently solid hand and win a lot when he checks back his AK or 33 or whatever, and b) wtf is he gonna put me on to bluffcatch my shove? missed draw...? naked one card gutter checkcalling drawy flop? only hands i could be bluffraising with here is 88-TT or so and for that to make sense he has to believe that first of all, i didn't three-bet them preflop and second of all, am perceptive and creative enough to turn them into a bluff when i suspect i am beat. no hands worse than trips make any sense for me at all here imo. this is far from important than any silly meta game considerations craig tries to argue for.

i get the suspicion that craig1120 was villain in this hand and is subtly trying to defend his call. u suck at posting, villain.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

yeh this is good.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

its ok cos he doesnt have much and the little stuff he could have doesnt call often

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

the reason you do this with a big hand, is the reason you don't do this as a bluff.

I guess it depends a lot on your thoughts of the villain, but I was thinking this may even be for value. Against some people this is very good, against some very bad, I don't think anyone here can tell you.

edit: didn't realise flush got there on turn, I like it more, still not a lot though. I think he expects you to bet with your good hands and maybe c/r with nuts. If he is good he probably realises that it's nuts or air and given your flop play it's probably air a lot more often.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

i like it. calling is prob burning against a tightie.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
only hands i could be bluffraising with here is 88-TT or so and for that to make sense he has to believe that first of all, i didn't three-bet them preflop and second of all, am perceptive and creative enough to turn them into a bluff when i suspect i am beat.

[/ QUOTE ]
See now this is a much better argument. I was not villain in this hand and I wasn't arguing either way that your play was good or bad.

What I was saying is that your justification sucks that villain will hardly ever show up with a hand better than your repping so it must be good. This has little to do with the EV of this play because villain should realize his entire range is now a bluffcatcher once you c/r.

This play is more dependent on what he thinks of your range and if you have little history than what his tendencies are (if he makes big calls), image etc.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

jesus christ are u retarded? villains range of hands has nothing to do with the EV of this play? christ stop posting. im not reading anymore anyway thats for sure

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

luego, he is saying that even though his range may not be that strong, if he calls all of it then your assumption that "he doesn't have a good hand so it's a good play" is non-sensical.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

Yes ty. This forum is ridiculous sometimes. Luego posts a hand in order to get feedback I assume. I'm browsing the forum and read through the thread. I see that there is an error in his thinking and attempt to correct it. Instead of trying to understand, he just flames. I attempt to explain further. More flaming.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

Except there was no error in his thinking and you have no idea of what you are talking about, but other than that I agree 100% with you.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
because i dont think he can beat trip sevens, boats or flushes very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

this explanation, to all but the most numb-skulled or inexperienced, implies "i think i am doing a good job of representing trip sevens, boat or flush believably and since he rarely beat those hands and has no reason to put me on anything other than these hands, he should fold". i shouldnt have to spell that out when posting a $5/$10 hand. maybe $0.1/$0.2 but not $5/$10. seems pretty clear neither of u should be replying to this thread since even a simple concept like this demands to be explained to the last decimal in order for you to understand it.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

maybe the players at 10/20 are better than the ones at 5/10 and below and can't hand read then, and I guess this was implied aswell?....

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because i dont think he can beat trip sevens, boats or flushes very often.

[/ QUOTE ]

this explanation, to all but the most numb-skulled or inexperienced, implies "i think i am doing a good job of representing trip sevens, boat or flush believably and since he rarely beat those hands and has no reason to put me on anything other than these hands, he should fold". i shouldnt have to spell that out when posting a $5/$10 hand. maybe $0.1/$0.2 but not $5/$10. seems pretty clear neither of u should be replying to this thread since even a simple concept like this demands to be explained to the last decimal in order for you to understand it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like you should stop posting dude, you're not gonna learn anything here.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

yawn im not having that argument again. i get lots of good responses from players that i respect to my threads, but telling a [censored] poster who has no idea what he is talking about that he is a [censored] poster who has no idea what hes talking about really doesnt make me lose any sleep at night at all. i dont post strat to make friends with droolers. i dont care.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

alright,

since I am bored here I will enlighten you.

His hand range is TT---->AA including QT--->AQ. He will either bet/fold AA or bet/call it. Since AA=TT then he is not going to fold any of his range or conversely will fold all of it.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
alright,

since I am bored here I will enlighten you.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol.


luego: I like the shove.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
alright,

since I am bored here I will enlighten you.

His hand range is TT---->AA including QT--->AQ. He will either bet/fold AA or bet/call it. Since AA=TT then he is not going to fold any of his range or conversely will fold all of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, because an unknown totally realizes TT = AA in the 30 secs he has to make a decision, and thinks "hey, time to call w/all of my range"

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

i think this is bad/stupid fps against most ppl bc they wont believe u and will just not fold better hands hardly ever

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

Since your unknown to it makes it even better IMO.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

First off, what's with the hostility Fuego? If you know your play was correct why post? Obviously villian is not strong nobody disputes that. Your repping a narrow range here, the nuts. The success of this does not depend on villian's hand it is based on your relationship with the villian and his tendency to make light calldowns in situations where your line is questionable.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think this is bad/stupid fps against most ppl bc they wont believe u and will just not fold better hands hardly ever

[/ QUOTE ]

no one ever folds when i did this, so i stopped doing it.

if you do this play with trips, you are sick.

Re: yet another river checkraise
 

i think this all comes down to your image... i think it's pretty tight, so this should work, but it depends a lot on the opponent.

the thing is, most LAGs and all bad players seem to think everyone plays like them and thus would never just c/c a flush draw on the flop (or two pair or a set or something) so they'd just think you were FOS and call. Esp since there are some missed straight draws. I dunno I think people used to fold here a ton, maybe like 2-3 months ago, but then people started c/r bluff more and people stopped folding tot hem, which is why it is fun to do for value... a lot.