Caught in the middle again.
 

Folded to Maniac in cutoff who raises, Called by Super Lag from previous post who calls on the button, SB reraises(once again has a bet and a half left to go all in) I am in the BB and decide to just call with 9d9s. I am 95% percent sure that either cutoff or Button will be capping and I think it is best to let them keep the initiative so I can check-raise a favorable flop. Surprisingly, the maniac just calls but the button does not dissapoint and caps.

The flop: JcTc7s

BB bets(all in) and I am next. Do I get involved here? It could get expensive with these two. On the other hand, I may have the best hand and I do have a gutshot draw.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

again i don't like your pf play

what odds do you reckon you're getting right now on your gutshot?

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

If a spade comes you are probably beat or not getting much out of them. If the 8 comes you get the straight, but will not get much action again. If the magical 8s comes you will get bets out of a higher spade... but let's not count on 1-outers too much.
Do we have any chance of getting the two left to act out with a raise? If so raise it... if not I may get away due to some ugly RIO potentially costing us alot of cheese.

PF: Raise or be gone.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

unless this game is 4 handed or less 100% fold-"only call"??? 4-handed raise 100% call 0% you said in another post you were not talking about preflop play-well you should. Stop reading so much of the Ed Miller stuff its messing with your head.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

Fold preflop. That's why, so you don't have to deal with these situations where you have no idea what is going on. Getting involved for 4 bets with 99 OOP in a 4-way pot is ridiculous. Re-read Ed Miller on what type of pots you want to get involved with 99 in. 4-way capped pot is pretty much the worst situation possible.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

I think this is a call preflop, and on the flop you are going to play your hand as the best hand until shown otherwise. So that means raise.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

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Fold preflop. That's why, so you don't have to deal with these situations where you have no idea what is going on.

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I can see this advice being ok if you are on a short roll or have no clue how to play after the flop. Otherwise, I think this is plainly silly. Given the reads, we can't fold this preflop.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

I strongly disagree what do you think the SB's three bet range is? lets say (in light of your holding) 88+,KQo+,KXs+. I dont really like your chances againt him let alone the maniacs who will be acting after you.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly disagree what do you think the SB's three bet range is? lets say (in light of your holding) 88+,KQo+,KXs+. I dont really like your chances againt him let alone the maniacs who will be acting after you.

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The SB is going all-in, another of those 'I'm going home' scenarios. He could have just about anything. I'm not altogether happy w/ 9's here and could argue the case either way but against a maniac and a super-lag I lean towards playing. That's a pretty bad flop, though, and you're going to be seeing a lot of bad flops, OOP and against very aggressive players when you call w/ hands like OP has and unless you read your opponents well and are able to release it might be best to just fold pf.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I strongly disagree what do you think the SB's three bet range is? lets say (in light of your holding) 88+,KQo+,KXs+. I dont really like your chances againt him let alone the maniacs who will be acting after you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another small bet and he's all in, his range is much much bigger than you're giving him. He's just looking to put it all in and hope.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

Why all the discussion over the PF play?

Given the reads folding is not an option, therefore I assume most people are thinking capping is correct. Why? The maniac button or the CO are going to cap (according to the OP), then why is it better that we do?

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

Fold preflop?!?!?! WTF! WTF! WTF!

Cap for value please. mkthanks.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop?!?!?! WTF! WTF! WTF!

Cap for value please. mkthanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

[ QUOTE ]
unless this game is 4 handed or less 100% fold-"only call"??? 4-handed raise 100% call 0% you said in another post you were not talking about preflop play-well you should. Stop reading so much of the Ed Miller stuff its messing with your head.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please read the other posts. Thank you.

Re: Caught in the middle again.
 

Ok-was late last night and I totally missed the all in sb part. I change my mind capping for value is fine-but agree to this your looking for 3 three flop types and only one is good xx9,842,Q72 coordinated big card flops and yur fk'd just like the one in the post. The value this hand has comes from dragging these donks along to the river which they will due to the big pot-conversly you will have the odds to justify shiity calls as well-the srew the variance in favor of +ev is a scary way to play poker