Bankroll Debate
 

Feedback from math guys and lesser-math guys deeply appreciated...

For an above average player, if he/she wanted to do:

$10+1, $20+2, & $30+3 Deep Stack MTTs
$20+2 Heads-Up NLHE Tourneys (between 128 - 256 players)
$20+2 Heads-Up NLHE S&G Tourneys (either 2, 4, or 8 players)

What kind of roll would he/she need if the S&G accounted for 50% of his/her play?

Since S&G's have only a few opponents, wouldn't that have less variance and more "sure-thing" money most of the time?

What roll MINIMUM would you advise? MINIMUM

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

$33. Minimum.

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

there are Heads up MTTs? i think the rule for SNGs is a 100 buyins. so for 20+2s you should have minBR of like 2K.

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

I'm a freaking nit..I have 8K and I'm still playing the 10-20 tournies...occasional shots but recognize that the skill level is higher and beating the donkaments

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
$33. Minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

good point sherman

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

FAQ

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
$33. Minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

whaaaa... with 33... you got to giv the 30 rebuy a shot...

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

Actually, this is a good question, since I divide my time between $20-30 SNGs and $20-30 tournaments.

And, SSNYC, you really should be taking more shots at $50s and learning from them with an 8K roll.

Barry

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

Barry,

nit thing coming into play! I wish Stars had more 20-30 MTTs but with kids and real life these 1 1/2 180 man turbos work well...unfortunately the pushbot thing is klling my real poker game and I've been too aggressive (maybe not the worst thing) in regular tournies when I do them..

Maybe a still drink and some planning is due

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
$33. Minimum.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Post of the day!!!

I know I should give this a serious answer,but sherms reply just cracked me up!!!
[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
And, SSNYC, you really should be taking more shots at $50s and learning from them with an 8K roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. You've got to be kidding me. If I had an 8K roll I'd play every single $50 MTT. Sigh.

Sherman

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

It depends.

/thread

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

"Minimum" roll for someone whose mostly playing $20 SNGS? I'd say < all the choices offered. It just sooo depends.

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And, SSNYC, you really should be taking more shots at $50s and learning from them with an 8K roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. You've got to be kidding me. If I had an 8K roll I'd play every single $50 MTT. Sigh.

Sherman

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess but I've seen rolls bleed off pretty quick too...

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

A few things you need to do before I give you a detailed response for the first question .

What size mtt are you playing and what is your estimated roi ? The usual answer is at least 100 buy-ins but this is too generic to be right .

2)For a 128 man tourney , you would need at least :

B=-21^2/(2.41*2)ln0.01
B=421 buy-ins

Using an approximate standard deviation of 21 buy-ins and a win rate of about 60% assuming independence . I've also chosen a risk of ruin of about 1% .

So as you can see , your bankroll should be significantly higher in winner take all tournaments .

3)For a 4-man , you would need at least B=25 buy-ins as long as you're willing to move up or down when needed .

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
A few things you need to do before I give you a detailed response for the first question .

What size mtt are you playing and what is your estimated roi ? The usual answer is at least 100 buy-ins but this is too generic to be right .

2)For a 128 man tourney , you would need at least :

B=-21^2/(2.41*2)ln0.01
B=421 buy-ins

Using an approximate standard deviation of 21 buy-ins and a win rate of about 60% assuming independence . I've also chosen a risk of ruin of about 1% .

So as you can see , your bankroll should be significantly higher in winner take all tournaments .

3)For a 4-man , you would need at least B=25 buy-ins as long as you're willing to move up or down when needed .

[/ QUOTE ]

Jay...where can I get the cliff notes?

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

I'm with you ssnyc, I have a 5k roll on Poker Stars and still play $4.40 180's and $5 and $10 MTT's, and $3 rebuys. I really need to move up and take more shots at the bigger buy ins.

Some people have poor bankroll management, I'm the opposite, I protect it too much most of the time, LOL!!

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And, SSNYC, you really should be taking more shots at $50s and learning from them with an 8K roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. You've got to be kidding me. If I had an 8K roll I'd play every single $50 MTT. Sigh.

Sherman

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess but I've seen rolls bleed off pretty quick too...

[/ QUOTE ]

For you people who are over-rolled for the tournaments you currently play, I understand because I'm somewhat off a bankroll nit as well, though I play slightly higher (mostly $50-$150 mtt's and the occasional Sunday major).

Here's some advice though. Keep on playing the tournaments you feel comfortable playing and stay out of my way! No seriously, keep playing them but occasionally (occasionally meaning like 1-2 out of every 10 played) take a shot at tournament that's just above your comfort zone. Once you get a better feel for them and gain confidence you can slowly increase the number you play and before you know it, you'll be playing those exclusively.

If things don't go so well, or you feel like you're not playing well enough, you can always move back down, and keep improving until you feel ready to start taking shots again.

You will be facing tougher competition the higher you play, but at the same time it will undoubtedly make you a better player.

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

Sup, bankroll nits?

I think it's wrong to have an upper buy-in limit when it comes to tournaments. You can't really compare with cash games. To overcome the fear of playing against better players with more $ involved, you have to mix in a few tournaments where buy-in exceeds your limits. Say, if you normally play 20 tournaments a week, make sure you play 3-4 tournaments above your level. Don't take it to the extreme, of course. I wouldn't, for instance spend $163 in tournament fee if my bankroll was $500.

Edit: Now I realize, that I just posted a worse copy of swede's post [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And, SSNYC, you really should be taking more shots at $50s and learning from them with an 8K roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. You've got to be kidding me. If I had an 8K roll I'd play every single $50 MTT. Sigh.

Sherman

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess but I've seen rolls bleed off pretty quick too...

[/ QUOTE ]

For you people who are over-rolled for the tournaments you currently play, I understand because I'm somewhat off a bankroll nit as well, though I play slightly higher (mostly $50-$150 mtt's and the occasional Sunday major).

Here's some advice though. Keep on playing the tournaments you feel comfortable playing and stay out of my way! No seriously, keep playing them but occasionally (occasionally meaning like 1-2 out of every 10 played) take a shot at tournament that's just above your comfort zone. Once you get a better feel for them and gain confidence you can slowly increase the number you play and before you know it, you'll be playing those exclusively.

If things don't go so well, or you feel like you're not playing well enough, you can always move back down, and keep improving until you feel ready to start taking shots again.

You will be facing tougher competition the higher you play, but at the same time it will undoubtedly make you a better player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Swede...well put...trying that now...mostly playing in my comfort zone but ranging out here and there...actually trying the Stars PCA step qualifiers and as I get higher (at level 4 now $215) I expect to get some practice vs better compeition

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

30 buy in is enough. 30*30= 900 and you have more then 30 buy-ins
1000-1500 is very good IMO

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

30 buy ins? wow you are much better than me sir..I've had runs where 30 buy ins would have meant my kid would've been out of lunch money

Re: Bankroll Debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[Here's some advice though. Keep on playing the tournaments you feel comfortable playing and stay out of my way! No seriously, keep playing them but occasionally (occasionally meaning like 1-2 out of every 10 played) take a shot at tournament that's just above your comfort zone. Once you get a better feel for them and gain confidence you can slowly increase the number you play and before you know it, you'll be playing those exclusively.

If things don't go so well, or you feel like you're not playing well enough, you can always move back down, and keep improving until you feel ready to start taking shots again.

You will be facing tougher competition the higher you play, but at the same time it will undoubtedly make you a better player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Swede554, this is absolutely great advice and exactly what I need to get my lazy ass moving into higher buy in tourneys. You are so right, there is no real risk and if I go on one of those terrible runs that comes along every now and then, I can easily move back down without risking my roll in any way.

My problem has always been when I consider moving up I think of it as a all or nothing move. I think of moving up exclusively. I've never really thought about doing as you have said, play 1 or 2 above my normal buy in for every ten I play. This will also give me something to look forward to, it has been getting rather boring playing $5 and $10 tourneys all the time and not really feeling much pressure at all.