Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

I know is not me. Then who is? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

http://pokerpoquer.com/upload/Image/...es/matusow.jpg

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

wintermute FTW

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

http://pokerpoquer.com/upload/Image/...es/matusow.jpg

I agree and if you don't believe us, just ask him. He will tell you just how great he really is.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Wiseheart - I hope I'm not sorry I asked, but what does "FTW" mean?

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

wow, 3000 posts and you have to ask that?

heh

For The Win

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://pokerpoquer.com/upload/Image/...es/matusow.jpg

I agree and if you don't believe us, just ask him. He will tell you just how great he really is.

[/ QUOTE ]

If not him, look here.

http://texasholdemblogger.files.word...07/03/bozo.jpg

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wiseheart - I hope I'm not sorry I asked, but what does "FTW" mean?

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

It stands for "for the win"

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

nuclear500 - Thanks. I can't remember some of those acronyms. And I'll probably forget this one too in a month or two. It's like remembering where I parked my car in the casino parking lot a month ago. It goes in the short term memory and then is soon lost when I don't need it anymore.

I don't think FTW is an acronym I ever will use myself, except in a post related to wondering what it means. (It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as Wiseheart has used it here. I like HTB better for use here.)

I commonly use the dictionary when I don't know the meaning of something. For "FTW" the message returned from the dictionary I use from my computer is "'FTW' could not be found."

I don't want to tell you exactly what I thought FTW might mean. I thought one of the words was the same as in "WTF." The meaning of that latter acronym, WTF, is shown in my dictionary.

But not FTW. (Or probably HTB either).

(I don't recall previously looking up WTF, but just now I wondered if it would be there).

Anyhow, thanks.

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nuclear500 - Thanks. I can't remember some of those acronyms. And I'll probably forget this one too in a month or two. It's like remembering where I parked my car in the casino parking lot a month ago. It goes in the short term memory and then is soon lost when I don't need it anymore.

I don't think FTW is an acronym I ever will use myself, except in a post related to wondering what it means. (It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as Wiseheart has used it here. I like HTB better for use here.)

I commonly use the dictionary when I don't know the meaning of something. For "FTW" the message returned from the dictionary I use from my computer is "'FTW' could not be found."

I don't want to tell you exactly what I thought FTW might mean. I thought one of the words was the same as in "WTF." The meaning of that latter acronym, WTF, is shown in my dictionary.

But not FTW. (Or probably HTB either).

(I don't recall previously looking up WTF, but just now I wondered if it would be there).

Anyhow, thanks.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, Buzz - I like the reply.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Tough question. It's definitely not Wintermute. He destroyed the Party 2K PLO8 back when it was incredibly easy and stocked with fish, and apparently didn't make a cent at either PLO8 or any other game type (such a limit O8) on other sites, despite trying.

He was just a guy in the right place at the right time with the right bankroll. As for the actual best in the world, I'd imagine one of the old time WSOP winning pros would have to be in the running.

BTW I know Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

John Guth...next question

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]Phil - Poor Mute can't defend himself.

For those of you who are new to the forum, Mute was a very intelligent poster with some keen insights. However, he pissed off at least one of my mod predecessors so badly that he got himself banned.

There were some good exchanges between Phil and Mute in times gone past.

I know Mute would have a great rejoinder, or at least a funny picture to post if he could still post here.

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
nuclear500 - Thanks. I can't remember some of those acronyms. And I'll probably forget this one too in a month or two. It's like remembering where I parked my car in the casino parking lot a month ago. It goes in the short term memory and then is soon lost when I don't need it anymore.

I don't think FTW is an acronym I ever will use myself, except in a post related to wondering what it means. (It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as Wiseheart has used it here. I like HTB better for use here.)

I commonly use the dictionary when I don't know the meaning of something. For "FTW" the message returned from the dictionary I use from my computer is "'FTW' could not be found."

I don't want to tell you exactly what I thought FTW might mean. I thought one of the words was the same as in "WTF." The meaning of that latter acronym, WTF, is shown in my dictionary.

But not FTW. (Or probably HTB either).

(I don't recall previously looking up WTF, but just now I wondered if it would be there).

Anyhow, thanks.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

FTL (For the lose) is semi-common also. "Man I was 5th in chips on the bubble of a PLo/8 tourney and busted out. AA25ds FTL!"

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

A lifetime ban? If pissing someone off was grounds for that, these boards would be empty. Maybe its time to commute Mute's sentence?

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Yeah, they routinely let murderers, child molesters and jaywalkers back on the street in the USA - what could earn a lifetime ban.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Guth...next question

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

I'm for letting Mute back in, but I don't make these decisions.

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Tough question. It's definitely not Wintermute. He destroyed the Party 2K PLO8 back when it was incredibly easy and stocked with fish, and apparently didn't make a cent at either PLO8 or any other game type (such a limit O8) on other sites, despite trying.

He was just a guy in the right place at the right time with the right bankroll. As for the actual best in the world, I'd imagine one of the old time WSOP winning pros would have to be in the running.

BTW I know Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiousity, do you know for a fact that he is no longer a winning player. I rarely see him playing, and I do agree to some degree that he benefitted from weak players at the higher limits, but even at full-ring he was better than a lot of "winning" players I see regularly. And I have no doubt that he could win at SH PL08 against practically anyone.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

If you impose a 5 rum-and-coke minimum, Wintermute is far and away the best PLO8 player. But he doesn't have enough hands in sober to say whether he's good or not.

-g

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]

If you impose a 5 rum-and-coke minimum, Wintermute is far and away the best PLO8 player. But he doesn't have enough hands in sober to say whether he's good or not.

Yeah, rumour had it you used to be pretty good too.
-g

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Are you guys deaf?

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...or006/guth.jpg

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
John Guth...next question


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, please. I met the guy, and I played with him for a week or so on the PLO8 cash game at the WSOP after his big win. Maybe he wasn't taking it seriously -- blowing 30k in a week on booze & strippers will do that -- but he wasn't *that* special. Good guy, great player, but not the *best* O8 player in the world.

Sorry, I don't see it.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

I should also say that I admire John because he has that certain something -- a thick streak of IDGAF -- that, as a father of two, I just don't have ... and that make him a champion and bracelet winner, and me not so much.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Of the folks I played with this summer, I nominate Tex among the internet folks and Annie among the TV pros.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiousity, do you know for a fact that he is no longer a winning player. I rarely see him playing, and I do agree to some degree that he benefitted from weak players at the higher limits, but even at full-ring he was better than a lot of "winning" players I see regularly. And I have no doubt that he could win at SH PL08 against practically anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

the guy (wintermute) has a good habit of pissing me off, but i've never argued that he can and did totally dominate online PLO8.

In my opinion, the obvious criteria for World's Best O8 Player includes live LO8, online LO8, online PLO8, and short-handed play also. it takes a broad skill set to steadily dominate in both fixed limit and big bet games. i've heard that annie duke is very good, same goes for negreanu.

someone should PM this thread to Barry Greenstein, he obv plays in the big mixed game, and also has a little knowledge of the world of online poker. he could probably spit out some good overall candidates.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tough question. It's definitely not Wintermute. He destroyed the Party 2K PLO8 back when it was incredibly easy and stocked with fish, and apparently didn't make a cent at either PLO8 or any other game type (such a limit O8) on other sites, despite trying.

He was just a guy in the right place at the right time with the right bankroll. As for the actual best in the world, I'd imagine one of the old time WSOP winning pros would have to be in the running.

BTW I know Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiousity, do you know for a fact that he is no longer a winning player. I rarely see him playing, and I do agree to some degree that he benefitted from weak players at the higher limits, but even at full-ring he was better than a lot of "winning" players I see regularly. And I have no doubt that he could win at SH PL08 against practically anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played a lot with his doucheness on party back in the day. And I say that with some sort of reveled sentimentality. If mute's musings are even halfway factual, I tip my hat to him and his IDGAF mentality, and the way he has brought to life such a voracious and gluttonous lifestyle through written word, accompanied by clever metaphors and hilariously obscene observations about human nature.

When mute was playing his 'A' game, I knew no one better at PLO8. However, there were significant discrepancies between one game and the next from my experience. I always was under the impression (and still am) that if mute ever learned the discipline that so many of us do from playing poker and handling the emotional and financial swings that he could have relatively speaking the most ridiculous edge anyone has in a single game. I found that PLO8 offered so many opportunities for a huge mistake the difference between one opponent and the next could be drastic in terms of results simply due to one leak in their game, and I think mute recognized these leaks and mistakes and not only avoided them when he was playing well but recognized them in his opponents and capitalized very well from his observations.


As recent as this past WSOP, when someone would ask me for some type of definitive information about pot limit omaha eight or better and correct strategy, I'd just tell them to google "wintermute".


Truthiness- I've always considered validation from my peers and counterparts to be very rewarding, something that lasts much longer than the typical reward in this particular arena. Thank you for that.





-Tex

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]Phil - Poor Mute can't defend himself.

For those of you who are new to the forum, Mute was a very intelligent poster with some keen insights. However, he pissed off at least one of my mod predecessors so badly that he got himself banned.

There were some good exchanges between Phil and Mute in times gone past.

I know Mute would have a great rejoinder, or at least a funny picture to post if he could still post here.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps he still walks among us under a different name...

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Hi Mack - You're back. Welcome back.

Mute switched names several times, I think. But he had a distinctive writing style. And I haven't seen his style for a while (not since maybe last September or October, and then it was in another 2+2 forum).

In short I don't think he's currently posting on this forum under another name.

And in truth I don't know exactly what he did to got banned. I assume he somehow finally exasperated the powers that be. I do remember he could be a thorn in the side if he decided to get on your case. But he also had some funny posts! And some good insights as well.

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]Phil - Poor Mute can't defend himself.

For those of you who are new to the forum, Mute was a very intelligent poster with some keen insights. However, he pissed off at least one of my mod predecessors so badly that he got himself banned.

There were some good exchanges between Phil and Mute in times gone past.

I know Mute would have a great rejoinder, or at least a funny picture to post if he could still post here.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps he still walks among us under a different name...

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure he rubbed Mat Sklansky the wrong way. Mute would ever so often 'drunk post' and if you've ever read his blog, you'd know what kind of outlandish things he could say from time to time. He had plenty of warnings, but I'm sure that if he lobbied they'd let him back again provided he'd respect the site and the T&C they have in place to protect themselves.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Out of curiousity, do you know for a fact that he is no longer a winning player. I rarely see him playing, and I do agree to some degree that he benefitted from weak players at the higher limits, but even at full-ring he was better than a lot of "winning" players I see regularly. And I have no doubt that he could win at SH PL08 against practically anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at the breakdown of results he posted in his blog, almost all the money he made came from PL $2000 and PL $1000 (the unbracketed ones are Party), which by his and others' comments were some of the easiest games on Party. His foray into other games and sites didn't end profitably, with the exception of an $83K super heater for 172 hands at $1000/$2000 limit which doesn't mean anything at all.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ebreakdown.jpg

He enjoyed the Party fish, and that's all. No notable cash at the WSOP. No tournament winnings. It's a big stretch to call him the best Omaha/8 player.

He may well be playing now and doing well, I have no idea.

-------

Buzz,

I am sure mute is more than capable of making a gimmick account (or has one already) and the mods would look the other way if he did post.

BTW, don't get me wrong. He's quite skilled and great entertainment and if I ever met the guy I'd definitely buy him a beer <font color="white">and pop a laxative in it</font>

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Hehe, I was being fecetious when I suggested Wintermute, but Im glad the forum has finally recognized his comic genius and playing ability.

I think if he posted again, the post would probably have KAAAAAAAAAAAAA in it.

Im still kinda sad I never got the chance to meet up with greg and mute here in the Bay, maybe we can still do that someday.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tough question. It's definitely not Wintermute. He destroyed the Party 2K PLO8 back when it was incredibly easy and stocked with fish, and apparently didn't make a cent at either PLO8 or any other game type (such a limit O8) on other sites, despite trying.

He was just a guy in the right place at the right time with the right bankroll. As for the actual best in the world, I'd imagine one of the old time WSOP winning pros would have to be in the running.

BTW I know Wintermute will read this and it makes me smile.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of curiousity, do you know for a fact that he is no longer a winning player. I rarely see him playing, and I do agree to some degree that he benefitted from weak players at the higher limits, but even at full-ring he was better than a lot of "winning" players I see regularly. And I have no doubt that he could win at SH PL08 against practically anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I played a lot with his doucheness on party back in the day. And I say that with some sort of reveled sentimentality. If mute's musings are even halfway factual, I tip my hat to him and his IDGAF mentality, and the way he has brought to life such a voracious and gluttonous lifestyle through written word, accompanied by clever metaphors and hilariously obscene observations about human nature.

When mute was playing his 'A' game, I knew no one better at PLO8. However, there were significant discrepancies between one game and the next from my experience. I always was under the impression (and still am) that if mute ever learned the discipline that so many of us do from playing poker and handling the emotional and financial swings that he could have relatively speaking the most ridiculous edge anyone has in a single game. I found that PLO8 offered so many opportunities for a huge mistake the difference between one opponent and the next could be drastic in terms of results simply due to one leak in their game, and I think mute recognized these leaks and mistakes and not only avoided them when he was playing well but recognized them in his opponents and capitalized very well from his observations.


As recent as this past WSOP, when someone would ask me for some type of definitive information about pot limit omaha eight or better and correct strategy, I'd just tell them to google "wintermute".


Truthiness- I've always considered validation from my peers and counterparts to be very rewarding, something that lasts much longer than the typical reward in this particular arena. Thank you for that.





-Tex

[/ QUOTE ]

Tex is right. When Mute was playing his A game he was the best PLO8 player on the planet, but he was inconsistent. Sometimes I would see him play and he was unstoppable, other times he was just bleeding chips.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Mack - You're back. Welcome back.

Mute switched names several times, I think. But he had a distinctive writing style. And I haven't seen his style for a while (not since maybe last September or October, and then it was in another 2+2 forum).

In short I don't think he's currently posting on this forum under another name.

And in truth I don't know exactly what he did to got banned. I assume he somehow finally exasperated the powers that be. I do remember he could be a thorn in the side if he decided to get on your case. But he also had some funny posts! And some good insights as well.

Buzz

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked him. I agreed with a lot of his thinking on pre-flop raising, which was a big subject for discussion at the time. (No, I'm not trying to reopen it! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

As has been alluded to by other posters, it's possible that 'Mute was forming an acquaintance with alcoholic beverages. Combine that with the fact that he was young, male and running good, and it's almost foreordained that 'Mute would occasionally get a little full of himself. Whatever he's doing now, I wish him well.

PS: He doesn't play high, and he doesn't play online, but Buzz is as tough as anybody I've played with. He would beat any O8 game I've ever sat in. He's easily the best student of the game. And I say this despite his disappointing 2nd place finish in the World Chowaha Championship, conducted in lovely Bell Gardens, CA. He was one suck-out away from the crown. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

It is interesting that mute, whom you hold in such high regard, was able to only get +4BB/100 under the best of circumstances.

In another thread posters argue that +5-10BB/100 is still possible in 2007.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Well, when I argued for 6-10BB/100, I was talking about lower limits. 4BB/100 at high limits is still very impressive, and if you look at just his bread-and-butter games (the three where he played the largest number of hands) he actually did better than 4BB/100. His overall average is reduced slightly by screwing around at lower limits or at NLO8 (where he doesn't seem to have an edge).

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

I agree. Based on what I've seen and the discussions, it seems to me that +6-10BB/100 is sustainable up to maybe $50PL (but you need good table selection and an abundance of bad players) and that +2BB/100 is sustainable at the highest levels by the best players. (In 2007.) I haven't done it, but I could see where some of you could.

You can probably stretch the range of stakes to $100PL if you run well and play really bad players.

But even at that level, it doesn't seem worth it to me: If you were to 4-table at .50/1 PL, which is the most that I think one can do before your play becomes robotic &amp; starts to suffer, you can get in probably 150 hands an hour. At +10BB/100, that's $15 an hour. The grind doesn't seem worth it to me.

And I've talked to some of the folks mentioned or posting in this thread, and I got the distinct impression that I am right about the grind. Whether it is variance at the highest levels or the small amounts you can make at the bottom, it doesn't seem like this is worth it except for a select few.

I know that I may be hijacking this thread. Perhaps the powers-that-be can open another.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It is interesting that mute, whom you hold in such high regard, was able to only get +4BB/100 under the best of circumstances.

In another thread posters argue that +5-10BB/100 is still possible in 2007.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mute ran well over 5bb/100s for most of his PL08 career-- and well over 200,000. I think the stats Phil posted included some of his "crash &amp; burn" at the end of 06-- if you can call it that.

For the limited amount I played with him he was NOT the best full-ring PL08 player I played with-- but I feared his game plenty and because of his sharing his thoughts on the game I had more insight into his game than any other player besides Ribbo. I feel pretty sure that Hossse_U runs over 5 bb/100s, Predator claims to, I think Gergery may have as well, and there are a few others too. But the number of PLO8 players with bb/100s above the $200 level with 200k hands that run more than 5bb/100s you can probably count on one hand and a couple extra fingers.

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

Thanks Mack, but my impression was that you are a better Omaha-8 player than I am.
[ QUOTE ]
And I say this despite his disappointing 2nd place finish in the World Chowaha Championship,

[/ QUOTE ]The guy who won that thing, Nolan Hee, is one awesome poker player by my standards, as is at least one other individual who plays in the same weekly private game as Nolan.

I remember the time we were playing HORSE (or maybe it was CHORSEL) and Nolan, with a beer in his hand and seemingly half looped looked across the table and told the player sitting next to me exactly what she had in her hand and why. We were playing a round of RAZZ at the time. It was a perfect read, something Daniel Negreanu might do. Just screwing around, Nolan could play circles around me. It was fun to play him heads up for about an hour in that hateful Chowaha game. But also stressful and exhausting. You young guys don't realize the stamina required for tournament play.

Buzz

Re: Who is the best Omaha 8 player in the world?
 

To return to the original question, I think now that it is too vague a question to answer simply. Davebreal was most right when he said that the *best* player should be one that is dominant OVERALL -- in cash games, tourney play, online, and shorthanded. But I don't think that one person fits that. It's like asking Federer to beat Nadal on clay, or putting Jeff Gordon into an F1 ride. They could probably eventually be the best at it, but you're playing against strength. And who wants to do that?