how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $114.26
UTG+1: $269.95
CO: $173.30
Button: $163.38
SB: $413.95
Hero: $228.65

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $6</font>, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($19, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $14</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $28</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($75, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $30</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $60</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($195, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero is all-in $134.65</font>.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

what. seems fine

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

This seems fine, I would raise slightly more on the turn though.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

why don't we want to pump the flop more/lead the turn?

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

3-bet the flop.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

compared to your bet sizing on previous streets your river all in looks fishy to me. but i know what you have, so meh.

i think this line is ok. you could always 3-bet flop, get more in the pot. lead turn for about 1/2 pot once you quad up, then the pot is big enough on river he will feel compelled to call if he has tpgk.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

3 bet the flop

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

3 betting that flop gets AQ or AK to fold quite a bit

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

Either b3b flop, or if you want to take this line, you really have to raise more on the turn. A minraise kinda sucks here as he can get away from the river. If you raise to $90 (less than a pot sized raise) and shove the river, that'll be a $103 into a $250 pot so he isn't getting away nearly as easily that way.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting that flop gets AQ or AK to fold quite a bit

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but we never know what they fold and I think enough people call a smallish 3-bet (minreraise, anyone?) for the 3-bet to be the best play.

If you think he might be tight enough to fold AK/AQ on the flop then you still need to lead the turn. When you have a monster OOP then your goal in most cases (including this one) needs to be to avoid an unbet street.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

i hate miniraising but at the time i just wanted to get enuf in to make the river a call, i think i shouldve put it to 85 or so..

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
i hate miniraising

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

FWIW, minraising (or minreraising) is often the best play.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

i don't understand why you lead if you weren't planning to 3bet.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i hate miniraising

[/ QUOTE ]

Why?

FWIW, minraising (or minreraising) is often the best play.


[/ QUOTE ]
you misspelled 'rarely'

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

People who say 'don't minraise' are as bad imo as peopl who say 'don't slowplay' etc etc without even thinking about it. Minraising is good in certain situations. I think it's fine here, I probably make it more like $70 just so the rest of his stack slides in that bit easier on the river.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

Seems fine. Anything that calls $60-$80 is going to call your push. You aren't getting anything from a horribly played missed draw or much from an AK-like hand.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

$80 raise on the turn. Get the rest in on the river.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seems fine. Anything that calls $60-$80 is going to call your push. You aren't getting anything from a horribly played missed draw or much from an AK-like hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol AK/AQ go broke all the time in these spots.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

A bigger c/r on the turn makes it MUCH easier to get the $$$ in on the river (people dont like calling 60BB river bets) and also gets the most from him when he has a draw that misses on river

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
People who say 'don't minraise' are as bad imo as peopl who say 'don't slowplay' etc etc without even thinking about it. Minraising is good in certain situations. I think it's fine here, I probably make it more like $70 just so the rest of his stack slides in that bit easier on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]
quick reply makes it hard to tell if you are directing this at me or not, but for the record i definitely agree. i just think saying minraising is often the correct play is wrong, and that it's way more true to say that situations where minraising is the correct play are rare. not nonexistent, just not particularly common.

in this spot i'd probably make it 75 or 80 on the turn. edit: probably 77 to save my self half a second of typing

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

Grunch:

you extract the most by 3 betting flop big

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems fine. Anything that calls $60-$80 is going to call your push. You aren't getting anything from a horribly played missed draw or much from an AK-like hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol AK/AQ go broke all the time in these spots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless Absolute has gotten less rockish, I would not expect to see AK call a bet on the river very often; however, my point was if AK (or nay villain holding) will call $75 on the river, then it will call a shove.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

raise turn to like 70-80 so a river push is easier.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

you extract the most by 3 betting flop big

[/ QUOTE ]

I really disagree with this, IM folding AK AQ to that raise and most decent players i know will, only hands that are calling this are top two or maybe some idiots with hearts

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

If I don't c/r the flop I 3-bet it for sure (I have a tendency to c/r a lot on the flop) probably not huge (like half pot size) but enough to put most of it in on the turn.

Also decent players might find a fold with AQ/AK but how often do you meet good players at these stakes? Very rarely in my opinion.
So unless I have a read I 3-bet this like always, he tells you that he's interested so nail him now...

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

I dont hate 3 betting flop if villain is donk, as he looks like from gay raise on flop. If villain is good, adn puts in real raise on flop, c/r turn and bet river is fine.

I think you're left with a big-ish bet for him to call on river because of this. If he puts in real raise on flop, and you call, then c/r turn the money goes it. It also goes in if you 3 bet his mini raise on flop.

Re: how can i extract the most out of this?? turned quads
 

Raise more on the turn.