David Wright got screwed
 

David Wright got robbed by the sportswriters. He didn't just deserve to win the MVP, he deserved to win it unanimously. Jimmy Rollins isn't even the second most valuable player on his team (Utley and Howard are far more productive offensively). If voters decided against Wright b/c of the mets collapse, then they're uninformed idiots who shouldn't be allowed to participate in the process. The fact is that David Wright carried the mets' offense down the stretch while playing gold glove caliber defense at the hot corner. He hit .388 the last 2 weeks of the season and accounted for virtually all their offense. The mets missed the playoffs b/c Reyes was horrendous in September and the entire pitching staff (starters and relievers) blew up simultaneously. To punish Wright for this is unfair.

BA HR RBI OBP SLG OPS
.325 30 107 .416 .546 .962 (Wright)

.296 30 94 .344 .531 .875 (Rollins)


There's no arguing that Wright's numbers are superior. Quite frankly, it's not close. The OPS disparity is massive.



Now consider the stadiums where these 2 guys played:



Citizens Park is a band box. It's a joke. Its dimensions are better suited for a little league game. It was ranked the best hitters park in the NL last year (ahead of Coors field) and yielded the most runs in 2007.



Shea Stadium has historically been among the toughest hitters parks in baseball. If Rollins played at Shea he'd be lucky to reach 20 HR. If Wright played at Citizens Bank his HR total would be closer to 40.



David Wright won both the silver slugger and gold glove. Only 2 players in the history of baseball have had a season with a:

.300+ BA

100+ RBI

100+ RUNS

30+ SB

30+ HR

and have won both the gold glove and silver slugger award. They are:



Barry Bonds 1990

David Wright 2007



This voters got it very wrong this year. David Wright deserved every single 1st place ballot cast.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

Voters remember September.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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This voters got it very wrong this year. David Wright deserved every single 1st place ballot cast.


[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of a stretch there.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

I like how OP made a Rollins-Wright comparison without using the word "shortstop".

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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I like how OP made a Rollins-Wright comparison without using the word "shortstop".

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It's not even so much that, but it's the fact that the only thing OP used to measure defense was "gold glove."

OP, I agree that Rollins shouldn't have won, and I agree that Wright should not be penalized for the rest of his team's poor performance in September. However, even having said that, Wright not only shouldn't have been the "unanimous winner", but he still shouldn't have even won. Objectively, Pujols was better.

check out this article

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

sigh

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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This voters got it very wrong this year. David Wright deserved every single 1st place ballot cast.


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Bit of a stretch there.

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OP is ignorant, doesn't understand difference btw 'numeric' and 'objective,' and doesn't know the actual terms of MVP balloting but thinks he does.

In other words, typical Shea fan. Unanimously, LOLOL.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

Dude, who cares? What are you, 7?

Wright is a great player and he doesn't need an MVP award to validate himself. Those in-the-know don't use the MVP award as a qualifier. We know Wright is awesome. Really, who cares?

The only people who should care about this aside from relatives of DW are Mets fans under the age of 13.

EDITED TO ADD: The MVP award is retarded and just needs to go away, because there is way too much disparity on how to define it anyway.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Citizens Park is a band box.

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Paging Eurotrash!

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

One of those sportswriters, Bill Conlin of the Philadelphia Daily News, got into a email battle with the blog Ashburn Alley, . In the exchange, Conlin finished with this comment:

[ QUOTE ]
The only positive thing I can think of about Hitler’s time on earth–I’m sure he would have eliminated all bloggers. In Colonial times, bloggers were called “Pamphleteers.” They hung on street corners handing them out to passersby. Now, they hang out on electronic street corners, hoping somebody mouses on to their pretentious sites. Different medium, same MO. Shakespeare accidentally summed up the genre best with these words from a MacBeth soliloquy: “. . .a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. . .”

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Voters remember September.

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I am not advocating Wright for the MVP, but if this is true, then the OP is right, he should have been unanimous.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, who cares? What are you, 7?

Wright is a great player and he doesn't need an MVP award to validate himself. Those in-the-know don't use the MVP award as a qualifier. We know Wright is awesome. Really, who cares?

The only people who should care about this aside from relatives of DW are Mets fans under the age of 13.

EDITED TO ADD: The MVP award is retarded and just needs to go away, because there is way too much disparity on how to define it anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

But then retards wouldnt have anything to bitch about in the offseason...

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Wright you actually mean Holliday, right? How valuable can you be if you cant even lead your teams to the playoffs?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Wright you actually mean Holliday, right? How valuable can you be if you cant even lead your teams to the playoffs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very? Unless you want me to bust out "How useful can you be when you cant even lead your team to winning the WS since we all know there are only two outcomes in a baseball season, first and not-first." Valuable means helping your team win games. Helping a 50 win team win 70 games is valuable, even if they dont make the playoffs. Helping a 90 win team win 91 is less valuable, even if that win happens to get you into the playoffs that particular year.

The other unfortunate conclusion to be drawn from your argument is that it is basically impossible for any of the Indians or Red Sox to have been MVP because they would have made the playoffs without any one guy, and the wins after clinching the playoffs are value-less right?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

Re: Albert Pujols got screwed
 

FYT

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Wright you actually mean Holliday, right? How valuable can you be if you cant even lead your teams to the playoffs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing as how the letter sent to MVP voters defines value as "strength of offense and defense," I would say very if you have stronger offense and defense than anyone on the teams that made the playoffs.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

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It's called "Most Valuable Player". Not "best all-around player."

Of the top 10 vote-getters, three were paid less than DW. Per baseball-reference.com:

Wright finished 4th, and earned $1.25M in 2007
Fielder finished 3rd, and earned a paltry $415K
Howard finished 5th, and earned $900K
Hanley finished 10th, and earned $402K

I know it's the MLB, and $800K is peanuts, but one could argue that at least Fielder and Howard were more "valuable" than Wright, who was paid 3 times as much money.

Rollins and Holliday were a close 1, 2. Rollins earned $8M, and Holliday earned $4.4M.

There are several ways to define the "MVP" award, and most of them suck. The award should be terminated.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Wright you actually mean Holliday, right? How valuable can you be if you cant even lead your teams to the playoffs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seeing as how the letter sent to MVP voters defines value as "strength of offense and defense," I would say very if you have stronger offense and defense than anyone on the teams that made the playoffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, MH > DW either way, and the voters agree with me.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Precisely my intrinsic point. The award, if they're going to have one, should properly reflect what it is supposed to stand for. Right now, it does not.

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

By Wright you actually mean Holliday, right? How valuable can you be if you cant even lead your teams to the playoffs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very? Unless you want me to bust out "How useful can you be when you cant even lead your team to winning the WS since we all know there are only two outcomes in a baseball season, first and not-first." Valuable means helping your team win games. Helping a 50 win team win 70 games is valuable, even if they dont make the playoffs. Helping a 90 win team win 91 is less valuable, even if that win happens to get you into the playoffs that particular year.

The other unfortunate conclusion to be drawn from your argument is that it is basically impossible for any of the Indians or Red Sox to have been MVP because they would have made the playoffs without any one guy, and the wins after clinching the playoffs are value-less right?

[/ QUOTE ]
But Holliday literally ate dirt to get his team into the playoffs. You don't think that's valuable?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

[/ QUOTE ]

The Mets' collapse had absolutely nothing to do with David Wright. He was playing sensational baseball when it happened. It's not on David Wright in any way that other players failed in a game comprised of individual performances.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20/20 > Mets

as a diehard Mets fan, the only thing Wright deserves to get is not beaten to death, which most of the team DOES deserve

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

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The Mets' collapse had absolutely nothing to do with David Wright. He was playing sensational baseball when it happened. It's not on David Wright in any way that other players failed in a game comprised of individual performances.

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agree 100%. But personally, unless the numbers are hugely different, id rather give it to a guy who's team made the playoffs.

I love David Wright in the most Heterosexual way possible. And he had an MVP-caliber season. And if the Mets didnt collapse, he may have won the MVP. But they did. And since the goal is to make the playoffs, and David Wright's team fell short, then he was not the most valuable player in the league.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

lmao @ thinking the only way to be MVP is to make the playoffs.

by the letter of the award it means the player that affect his team's chances the most of being successful. if a team loses a player that they never would've been contending without, he can still be MVP.

team-influenced awards = meaningless anyway.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

here is a good example

1986 world series

Ray Knight .391/.440/.565 1 hr 5 rbi 4 runs
Marty Barret .433/.515/.500 0 hr 4 rbi 1 run 13 hits in 7 games
Dwight Evans .308/.400/.615 2 hr 9 rbi 4 runs
Dave Henderson .400/.448/.760 2 hr 5 rbi 6 runs
Bruce Hurst 2-0 1.96era 23 ip 18 hits allowed

Who deserved the MVP of this World Series and why? And were you upset when Knight won it?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

or are you guys saying the World Series MVP should only go to the winning team, but the reg season award should go to anybody

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

more recently, Sean Casey hit over .500 in the 2006 world series. SHould he have won the MVP over Lord Eckstein?

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]


Well, MH > DW either way, and the voters agree with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

the point that this thread convincingly makes is that voters are stupid. having you agree with them (or vice versa) is a strike against you.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Well, MH > DW either way, and the voters agree with me.

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the point that this thread convincingly makes is that voters are stupid. having you agree with them (or vice versa) is a strike against you.

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no maybe it means that some people agree with the criteria that the voters use -- doesnt make them or us stupid just because we disagree with you

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

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Well, MH > DW either way, and the voters agree with me.

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the point that this thread convincingly makes is that voters are stupid. having you agree with them (or vice versa) is a strike against you.

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no maybe it means that some people agree with the criteria that the voters use -- doesnt make them or us stupid just because we disagree with you

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1) you don't know what i think about MH vs DW, or about NL MVP in general, so why do you assume that you disagree with me?

2) conlin's writings in particular prove that he is a village idiot (and not just because he voted rollins), so let's not use "well, he agrees with me" as an argument. it doesn't make you necessarily stupid, but it's can be a strike against you.

3) it seems to me that it's inconsistent at best, if you criticize the criteria in one vote, but support it in the other. not you personally, but there are plenty MVP threads that talk about someone getting robbed because the voters have sucky criteria. let's not rejoice if the faulty criteria correctly ranks MH over DW (or vice versa) once.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

[/ QUOTE ]

So youre saying that he could put up the exact same numbers every year and yet his value would fluctuate depending on who pitches for the mets?

That makes sense not.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Wright was the best all-around player in the NL in 2007.

That's all.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called "Most Valuable Player". Not "best all-around player."

Of the top 10 vote-getters, three were paid less than DW. Per baseball-reference.com:

Wright finished 4th, and earned $1.25M in 2007
Fielder finished 3rd, and earned a paltry $415K
Howard finished 5th, and earned $900K
Hanley finished 10th, and earned $402K

I know it's the MLB, and $800K is peanuts, but one could argue that at least Fielder and Howard were more "valuable" than Wright, who was paid 3 times as much money.

Rollins and Holliday were a close 1, 2. Rollins earned $8M, and Holliday earned $4.4M.

There are several ways to define the "MVP" award, and most of them suck. The award should be terminated.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the kind of non-standard reasoning I can honestly get behind. When I think value, this is what goes through my mind. Its not IMPOSSIBLE for guys like Arod to be the best value but its pretty hard.

You'd have to make some amendments though, you'd have to establish some kind of minimum salary or service time, because otherwise its guys like Arod and Pujols trying to compete with every single rookie and 1 year service time guy who has a pretty decent bustout year. they make 20 times as much money, they arent going to provide twenty times as much value very often.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

[/ QUOTE ]

So youre saying that he could put up the exact same numbers every year and yet his value would fluctuate depending on who pitches for the mets?

That makes sense not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If he can put up 40 HR for 10 million, that is more valuable to his team than putting up 40 HR for 18 million, on just about any team except the Yankees. Because now they have 40 HR and a free 8 million to spend on more wins.

EDIT: Oops I thought you were saying something you werent. My bad.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
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vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

[/ QUOTE ]

Which side are you arguing? Baseball being a team game is the best possible argument AGAINST what you are saying.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
One of those sportswriters, Bill Conlin of the Philadelphia Daily News, got into a email battle with the blog Ashburn Alley, . In the exchange, Conlin finished with this comment:

[ QUOTE ]
The only positive thing I can think of about Hitler’s time on earth–I’m sure he would have eliminated all bloggers. In Colonial times, bloggers were called “Pamphleteers.” They hung on street corners handing them out to passersby. Now, they hang out on electronic street corners, hoping somebody mouses on to their pretentious sites. Different medium, same MO. Shakespeare accidentally summed up the genre best with these words from a MacBeth soliloquy: “. . .a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. . .”

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

gold

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

vhawk,
The problem with using salary is it means every MVP would be under 25.

Re: David Wright got screwed
 

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
vhawk, i dunno. the mvp award is a regular season award, so its actually 1st-4th, and not 1st-4th (in each league). giving the mvp award to a player on a team that doesnt make the playoffs is like giving the world series mvp to a player on the losing team imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why couldn't the most valuable player in the WS be on the losing team?

[/ QUOTE ]

again, because baseball is a team game, your goal is to win

[/ QUOTE ]

So youre saying that he could put up the exact same numbers every year and yet his value would fluctuate depending on who pitches for the mets?

That makes sense not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If he can put up 40 HR for 10 million, that is more valuable to his team than putting up 40 HR for 18 million, on just about any team except the Yankees. Because now they have 40 HR and a free 8 million to spend on more wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a lot different than what I was saying. I was talking about value contributed to the team in the traditional sense of the award, not production per dollar. Obviously if a player puts up the exact same numbers but makes a different amount of money his relative "value" changes.