$114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

Villain is DDBeast. I know he's on a tight range here, but I'm getting over 2 to 1...do I need to get away from this?

PokerStars Tournament, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

Hero (t2010)
UTG+1 (t1220)
MP1 (t1865)
MP2 (t1350)
CO (t2200)
Button (t320)
SB (t1585)
BB (t2950)

Preflop: Hero is in UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero raises to t400</font>, <font color="red">UTG+1 raises to t1220 (All-in)</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">CO folds</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>, Hero?

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

I'm too lazy to do the math, but since he can have AK I think you need to call.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

I generally shove this pre.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

More often than not i have to say im shoving it pre first time

As played I think you do poorly vs your range, if he knows you are good , he knows you are opening utg, and is still shoving, best you can hope for is AK. Folding with 10 bbs is ok and probably the line I lean towards, I think you are drawing to two outs at least 80% of the time here

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

this cant be a call can it? 99 is the bottom of your range here and he knows that. pot odds arent enough, we are way behind.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

what's the antes like here? haven't played on stars in even longer than i haven't played on FT. 8 handed shoving utg with 99?! am i that far removed from how this stuff all works?

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

cit, no antes for another 2 levels on stars.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

+1 for thinking shoving pre is really bad. Also if we can fold preflop correctly here after making it 400 that just shows why 400 is better than shoving.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

Shoving pre is unexploitable. I think it's better vs. calling stations with a hand like this.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shoving pre is unexploitable. I think it's better vs. calling stations with a hand like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? You want calling stations peeling with stuff like 76s or even KQs.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

Ok, you get called by a station in MP, flop comes K75. Or QT3. What do you do? Check/fold? C-bet/call? C-bet/fold? Yuck yuck yuck.

I don't like it when you have no wiggle room post flop, and there's almost always overs, and you're usually OOP. Not to mention you get one call early, you may get more. 99 is no fun multi-way unless you flop a set. I'd rather just take my chances racing, or even be dominating every now and then.

The only bad thing to me is if they start to notice what hands I shove here. But until I ever see average regulars actually noticing something, I'm not going to worry too much.

And btw I could care less if DD Beast knows what I have, since I'd say I get into a 2p2 showdown early about once a month. It just doesn't happen that often that you both have a hand, esp. when you know the other dude's range so well.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm too lazy to do the math, but since he can have AK or 77 I think you need to call.

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My guess is that if you're getting 2:1 to call you need something like 38-40% equity against his range. You've got 42% against {77-AA,AK}.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm too lazy to do the math, but since he can have AK or 77 I think you need to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that if you're getting 2:1 to call you need something like 38-40% equity against his range. You've got 42% against {77-AA,AK}.

[/ QUOTE ]

2:1 u need 33.333% equity. but its $EV so maybe 35%. i dont think we quite have it. is he really shoving 77 here? or even 88 if he knows us well.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

I think DD's range there is JJ+/AK.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

I fold 77 here so fast. I had TT and definitely thought about folding for a little bit.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

a;lskdghasdg it's 8 handed people!

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

Yeah, in-game I thought at best (for me) your range was 88+, AK, AQs. So if it's TT+, AK is it still a call for me?

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

$EV_win = 23.33%
$EV_lose = 6.41%
$EV_fold = 12.24%

So the real answer is you need 34.47% pot equity. For those of you who still even think in chip EV at all (fhippo), you're getting 2.25:1 pot odds, or 30.77%.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
a;lskdghasdg it's 8 handed people!

[/ QUOTE ]

99=victory ldo

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
More often than not i have to say im shoving it pre first time

As played I think you do poorly vs your range, if he knows you are good , he knows you are opening utg, and is still shoving, best you can hope for is AK. Folding with 10 bbs is ok and probably the line I lean towards, I think you are drawing to two outs at least 80% of the time here

[/ QUOTE ]
agree

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

i think it would be a mistake for anyone to get in the habit of pushing 13.4 bb's utg with AQ 88 99 TT type of hands and then standard raising AK/JJ. there are so many regulars that in about 2 weeks people will really know your range.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in-game I thought at best (for me) your range was 88+, AK, AQs. So if it's TT+, AK is it still a call for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you can't answer that question for yourself, you shouldn't be playing 114s at all.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think it would be a mistake for anyone to get in the habit of pushing 13.4 bb's utg with AQ 88 99 TT type of hands and then standard raising AK/JJ. there are so many regulars that in about 2 weeks people will really know your range.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you way overestimate how often those spots come up, and how often anyone ever notices anything. Also you can mix in other hands every now and then.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in-game I thought at best (for me) your range was 88+, AK, AQs. So if it's TT+, AK is it still a call for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you can't answer that question for yourself, you shouldn't be playing 114s at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

chip, if you do have to move down please go all the way to the 27's. thx.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, in-game I thought at best (for me) your range was 88+, AK, AQs. So if it's TT+, AK is it still a call for me?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you can't answer that question for yourself, you shouldn't be playing 114s at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

chip, if you do have to move down please go all the way to the 27's. thx.

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Lol, will do John.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

In game I would call just because I felt pot stuck but since we know villain's range pretty well I guess folding is better. TT+ AK is all he should have.

Re: $114: 99 utg facing shove from 2p2er
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Shoving pre is unexploitable. I think it's better vs. calling stations with a hand like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? You want calling stations peeling with stuff like 76s or even KQs.

[/ QUOTE ]

76s??
Come on Pudge, people aren't that bad at 114$...
I like a 375 raise and folding to DDBeast's push, vs unknown is instacall.