folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

2/4 nl, $450 eff stacks.

UTG raises to 14, utg+1 reraises to $24, folded to me in BB, i 3bet to $75 w/ KK, utg folds, utg+1 pushes...

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

i think its fine

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

no - i won't bear with you

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
no - i won't bear with you

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for wasting your time opening the thread and posting a reply that doesn't contribute anything, though.

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

Reads? Without reads instacall, with reads almost instacall. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reads? Without reads instacall, with reads almost instacall. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

what's his range that min-reraises then pushes? just curious. This was literally my first hand at the table unfortunately.

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

AK? QQ? 72o? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Cant know without knowing opponent. Call and buy some info, atleast [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Folding kings PF against unknown opponent is big mistake, with these stacks.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

I think this is a fine fold and expect villain to have AA a huge portion of the time. Even on the few random times that villain somehow played AKo this way, you don't have him crushed...

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

Your opponent is giving you every indication that he has aces. There's really no arguing with the hand in question, just the idea.

I wouldn't hate either decision, and would lean towards folding, if only to put myself in that Zen Tommy state that accompanies big laydowns. Calling and seeing aces just makes me feel dumb and play like crap afterwards.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

Some inconsistancy here

Why does he min bet the first time around, but move allin for over 300 more the 2nd time around, when there is a perfect oppurtunity for another minraise!


Anyway I think its fine.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
This was literally my first hand at the table unfortunately.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good job on the $450 then.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reads? Without reads instacall, with reads almost instacall. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I really like this line. WE HAVE KK!!!!

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This was literally my first hand at the table unfortunately.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good job on the $450 then.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, second orbit then, sorry. it's late.

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
AK? QQ? 72o? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Cant know without knowing opponent. Call and buy some info, atleast [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Folding kings PF against unknown opponent is big mistake, with these stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like to buy info at the price of $450 getting 1.2:1. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

call.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reads? Without reads instacall, with reads almost instacall. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

what's his range that min-reraises then pushes? just curious. This was literally my first hand at the table unfortunately.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

He could have AK. you didn't fold right?

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

kratzer, ive been pushed on in that situation by so much. 99, AJ etc. for some reason a cold 4ball in that situation gets NO respect.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

These hands are nothing alike and no.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

kratzer, ive been pushed on in that situation by so much. 99, AJ etc. for some reason a cold 4ball in that situation gets NO respect.

[/ QUOTE ]

i called. just thought it was relevant to the thread.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

But you still have kings [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (S)he might have aces, but I have seen unknown players make this kind of plays with almost any 2 cards. You cant assume he is good player and even good/ok player can overplay QQ/AK here.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

kratzer, ive been pushed on in that situation by so much. 99, AJ etc. for some reason a cold 4ball in that situation gets NO respect.

[/ QUOTE ]

i called. just thought it was relevant to the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a standard raise then a shove, you are getting laid 1400 : 700 or so and Surf is laid like 525 : 375. The guy also min raises the first time around practically, so it seems like extreme strength followed by extreme strength or extreme weakness followed by extreme weakness depeding on the player

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]

This is a standard raise then a shove, you are getting laid 1400 : 700 or so and Surf is laid like 525 : 375. The guy also min raises the first time around practically, so it seems like extreme strength followed by extreme strength or extreme weakness followed by extreme weakness depeding on the player

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this was my reasoning. I don't think this is QQ-JJ, say, almost ever.

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

I always call here when i have a bad session and i think "no way i am being set up again like this".
I always fail to suck out against rockets.

Good laydown.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

kratzer, not the same at all, and i hope you instacalled.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

i like money so i instacall.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

I get off on folding kings preflop probably more than anyone here, but even I usually need a read of some sort. The only read you have is that he minraised, which usually indicates donkey, so I'd be very inclinded to call this.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

insta-call

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

I think it's fine man, I myself don't buy into the idea that you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS have to call all-in with KK every time. I think there are some spots where it is -EV.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

tall fold order for 112bbs

other two kings

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

Surf,

What does villain do here against your range? I assume your range here is KK/AA with maybe QQ/AKs in there. If I have rawkettz... Why bother with the flop if you'll always call?

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

These hands are nothing alike and no.

[/ QUOTE ]
also i like the fold in the OP.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

I'm suprised at you f_v, I would instacall this. I see donks make this move with AK and some other big suited aces and stuff. Easy easy call imo.

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

do you have any disconnect protections left?

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you have any disconnect protections left?

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahhaaha

when you have kings like this villian either has it or he doesn't. this villian either has aces or dueces. The unknown player will donk off here with QQ or some hand he doesn't know how to play on the flop like JJ or TT atleast as often as he has AA.

If all else fails use your disconnects haha,

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call here, I haven't played in the 5/10 stars games but i'm assuming they're pretty aggro, if there's any hint of steal-resteal going on I think you're getting pushed by enough non-premium stuff to make this an easy call.

Surf

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yesterday. villian is straate.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($914)
SB ($1009)
Hero ($1300.70)
UTG ($1103.50)
MP ($1352)
CO ($1551.65)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $40</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $130</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $350</font>, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $1009</font>, Hero...


do you fold here? basically same thing i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call here, I haven't played in the 5/10 stars games but i'm assuming they're pretty aggro, if there's any hint of steal-resteal going on I think you're getting pushed by enough non-premium stuff to make this an easy call.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

The 5/10 stars game are absurdly agg, and I'm not folding KK, AA, QQ, or AK basically ever pf in those games.

In your situation surf, I definitely like the fold. A min-raise and then push is probably AA/KK. I really don't see QQ doing this, and AK would love to call. The min-raise/push is decidedly AA most of the time, and it sucks it's your first hand b/c a read could really sway it, but I fold here as well as long as I'm not tilting at the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Edited: by min-raise I mean min rr

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

Will people please not re-raise KK in this spot? If you want to re-raise 86s in this spot, fine. If you want to re-raise AA in this spot, fine. But I think KK is the worst possible hand to re-raise in this spot. And it is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE if you are going to fold to a push...

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

[ QUOTE ]
for some reason a cold 4ball in that situation gets NO respect.

[/ QUOTE ]
thank you, thank you. i'll take the credit for that baby. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: folding kings... i know ppl hate this but bear with me..
 

You have all implications of a great player. You may have saved some money. I had almost the same situation the other day as you. I called a 3bet ALL-IN and was up against Aces. Guy took me for 1.1k. If the game was bigger, I may of let it go. Cold deck is all. Better luck next time.