3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

Playing 5/10 on FTP when the following hand came up. Villain is 36/6/.42 over 75 hands. He is clearly not very good, but I don't have any specific reads on what hands he will call multiple bets with.

I decide to double barrel the turn when the ace hits, but what is your play on this river? What hands/hand ranges do you put him on to justify the decision?

Thanks!

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $10 BB (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($1144)
MP ($1000)
CO ($547)
Button ($1079)
SB ($1005)
BB ($1600.65)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $35</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls $25.

Flop: ($75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $60</font>, BB calls $60.

Turn: ($195) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $180</font>, BB calls $180.

River: ($555) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero ???.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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Villain is 36/6/.42 over 75 hands.

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I don't even like the second barrel.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

just say no to 3-barreling 36/6/.42s

making even relatively standard folds is usually not their strong suit

i dont mind the 2nd barrel tho i think it works often even though he sucks and never folds he thinks "ooh ace scary" a lot

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

I like a 2nd barrel and a third barrel here. You opened from the one hole which imo makes this a decent spot to keep firing. I think you get raised here most of the time on the flop or turn if he flopped huge. The only hand I would be worried about is A's up I think KQ type hand folds enough to make this the best play.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

I bet either like $480 or $300, then stare in disbelief as he calls with 79o and vow to never bluff someone like that ever again.

Then I repeat the whole process the next day.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

2nd barrel is fine here. The board changed significantly on the turn, it's a good double barrel.

However, I think since he called the turn he's probably going to stay stubborn with his Qx and his two pair hands on this river card. Obv you fold out some naked and maybe even QsXs hands on the river, but I think it's unlikely give his turn call of your PSB. He can easily show up with AsXs here, and he's not going away for a 3rd barrel if he does have that.

I think you're only really folding out something like 86s, 64s, or a dry flush or straight draw that missed. Given you hold some spades though, I think his hand is much more likely to be a one or two pair hand that he's not folding.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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However, I think since he called the turn he's probably going to stay stubborn with his Qx and his two pair hands on this river card.

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I think this is the key question here. How stubborn is he with calling down second pairs after he's called two streets. He's obviously folding missed flush and straight draws, probably folding lower pairs like a 5,7, or 6, and never folding an ace or two pair.

What if the river had completed the flush? Would those who say to check the river change their minds?

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

Tis is a spot where what I would do depends mostly on his timing.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

shove

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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shove

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Interesting. This hadn't even really crossed my mind, but I really like it.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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I bet either like $480 or $300

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300 seems way too small here. I think the reason you said this amount is to make it look like a fake value bet, but I do not think villain is good enough recognize this as such and will just take a smaller bet as more of a reason to justify calling lightly.

Any other reason you suggested betting this amount?

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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shove

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Yea, shoving definitely increases your fold equity by a significant amount.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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shove

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ding

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

yeah i would shove too (as played)

but i think i check the turn more often than not

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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yeah i would shove too (as played)

but i think i check the turn more often than not

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I think checking this turn is a genuine leak.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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yeah i would shove too (as played)

but i think i check the turn more often than not

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I think checking this turn is a genuine leak.

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idk...turn is a super standard DB (against almost anyone) but if i get the feeling that they have a pair and just arnt folding, as i do with this guy, them im ok with giving up

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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idk...turn is a super standard DB (against almost anyone) but if i get the feeling that they have a pair and just arnt folding, as i do with this guy, them im ok with giving up

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If you think I shouldn't double barrel this turn (which is the best card in the deck to double barrel here), and he is probably calling very lightly on the flop, would you even be cbetting this flop?

In my opinion, if you are cbetting this flop against a player who will call lightly, you have to double barrel this turn. If you aren't double barreling the turn here, I don't think you can really justify cbetting.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

i disagree bc a cbet still takes it down more than 50% of the time i would assume AND it builds a pot for you if you do hit your flush

but maybe im being a little results oriented having seen how the hand played out...i know i bet this turn almost always-but if i get a feeling that hes not folding (and not folding to the combo of turn + river bet) i check...seems pretty straightforward right?

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

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i disagree bc a cbet still takes it down more than 50% of the time i would assume AND it builds a pot for you if you do hit your flush

but maybe im being a little results oriented having seen how the hand played out...i know i bet this turn almost always-but if i get a feeling that hes not folding (and not folding to the combo of turn + river bet) i check...seems pretty straightforward right?

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I think it's very very clear that the villian does not have a hand stronger than 1 pair here. Him playing 2p or a set on this draw heavy of a board OOP makes no sense. Therefore, I think the next question becomes how often he folds 1 pair, be it Qx or Ax (which are the most likely hands he will call with). I would say qx is significantly more likely than Ax here. I think he will fold all hands &lt;Qx. If, some of the time you think he folds Qx, this is a clear 3rd barrell. If you think he calls all of the time with Qx, it's a check behind (since that's the largest part of his range). I think you have to 3rd barrel here a decent % of the time.
dlpnyc21

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

if you think he folds an Ace, then shove.
if he doesnt fold an Ace, just check and give up and curse your bad luck that he floated the flop with A high and caught.

all in all I think I slightly prefer a DB on the turn, and then I slightly prefer a shove on the river.

Re: 3rd Barrell 5/10 NL FTP??
 

Thanks for the replies everyone. I checked the river and he flipped over the 6d4d.