sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

Xorbie's running 24/17ish. We haven't tangled much. I'm sure there will be different lines of thinking preflop. The rest of the hand seems interesting too. Shouldn't he be concerned I have JJ,QQ and be checking hearts on river. I can't put him on a boat cuz he woulda checked behind turn.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG ($51.90)
MP ($253.50)
CO ($154.35)
Button ($349.35)
SB ($185)
Hero ($334.60)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $28</font>, Button calls $20.

Flop: ($57) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, Button calls $30.

Turn: ($117) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $70</font>, Hero calls $70.

River: ($257) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $150</font>

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

i prefer c/c flop, as played turn is close (undecided atm - leaning towards fold), and rivers an easy fold, he's rarely bluffing there. It looks like you're inducing with a heart.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

vs xorbie i think im snapcalling here.

From a very very limited time playing with him at 100NL he is very very aggro and will call flop with any piece and look to outplay turn/river

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

river is a really bad place to bluff though loot, wouldn't you agree?

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
river is a really bad place to bluff though loot, wouldn't you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

no?

why would you think it is?

because hero might have QQ/JJ and just boated?

bah no way.
very more likely he has ThTx or KhQx and will have a tough time calling down here.

Im sure Xorbie knows this and is just going to run your ass through a grinder because of it.

I cant think of a better place to turn black kings or aces or something into a bluff for that matter if you are willing to fire multiple shells.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

i just think it is because it looks like hero is inducing and never has a plan to fold.

idk, depends what level they're on i guess.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

jw...does everyone 3bet 88 oop?

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

esp w/ his agro image..

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

Xorbie fires like almost all of his range on the turn and river if you let him. I would just fold the turn and move on given this information, since you have no significant history of aggression with him, making it very thin and not worthwhile to call down here. I put him on a preflop range that is ahead of 88 most of the time too. I see xorbie fold to a lot of 3 bets.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
Xorbie fires like almost all of his range on the turn and river if you let him. I would just fold the turn and move on given this information, since you have no significant history of aggression with him, making it very thin and not worthwhile to call down here. I put him on a preflop range that is ahead of 88 most of the time too. I see xorbie fold to a lot of 3 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

id agree with just folding the turn given this, but if im calling it gawd damnit im snapcalling this river.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

I think I call here because I see the big hearts raising the flop, my assumption is when you just called his bet that you had some medium heart and that you couldnt call in two spots

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I call here because I see the big hearts raising the flop, my assumption is when you just called his bet that you had some medium heart and that you couldnt call in two spots

[/ QUOTE ]

i wish my thoughts got worded like this.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

That flop bet is really weak. Please make a real bet.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

really dislike pre with stack sizes.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
really dislike pre with stack sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree, but was on autopilot 3bet yourass mode

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

So I tanked on river. Changed my mind about 3 times and finally the clock ran out and I couldn't act, so I folded, ldo. Xorbie immediately tells me that it shoulda been an easy call and it was a horrible bluff actually, we don't have the stones to make calls at this level, etc, lol. So, I guess I was good unless he was just yankin my chain (he says he had K9o/no heart). I really think if I had 20 more seconds I woulda called, but w/e.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

So I tanked on river. Changed my mind about 3 times and finally the clock ran out and I couldn't act, so I folded, ldo. Xorbie immediately tells me that it shoulda been an easy call and it was a horrible bluff actually, we don't have the stones to make calls at this level, etc, lol. So, I guess I was good unless he was just yankin my chain (he says he had K9o/no heart). I really think if I had 20 more seconds I woulda called, but w/e.



at least someone agrees w/ me!

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

River is without a doubt a fold imo. Your range for c/c the turn are sets and flushes, and he knows that, and I don't think he is going to try to push you off those hands often. On the river, you either boated up or have some kind of flush, likely a strong one. Occasionally he is going to be bluffing here but I think you're being taken to valuetown &gt; 80% of the time here.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

flop bet poorly sized i would make it much larger or not at all. prolly larger &gt; check &gt; bet 30.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I tanked on river. Changed my mind about 3 times and finally the clock ran out and I couldn't act, so I folded, ldo. Xorbie immediately tells me that it shoulda been an easy call and it was a horrible bluff actually, we don't have the stones to make calls at this level, etc, lol. So, I guess I was good unless he was just yankin my chain (he says he had K9o/no heart). I really think if I had 20 more seconds I woulda called, but w/e.

[/ QUOTE ]

He said that it was an easy call for you and a horrible bluff by him? I agree that it's a horrible spot for him to bluff, and that's why I would have folded. Not an easy call by any means though unless he makes those "horrible bluffs" all the time.

Fwiw I've never played with Xorbie I don't think, but I know he is a good player and from a good player I think you'll see them bluffing the river here pretty rarely unless they have a very good read.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
River is without a doubt a fold imo. Your range for c/c the turn are sets and flushes, and he knows that, and I don't think he is going to try to push you off those hands often. On the river, you either boated up or have some kind of flush, likely a strong one. Occasionally he is going to be bluffing here but I think you're being taken to valuetown &gt; 80% of the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good analysis. Another part of me during the countdown was thinking that he knows what I have and therefore it's very unlikely for him to be bluffing since I'm just a TAGfish and can't fold a heart [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'LL NEVER KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
river is a really bad place to bluff though loot, wouldn't you agree?

[/ QUOTE ]

no?

why would you think it is?

because hero might have QQ/JJ and just boated?

bah no way.
very more likely he has ThTx or KhQx and will have a tough time calling down here.

Im sure Xorbie knows this and is just going to run your ass through a grinder because of it.

I cant think of a better place to turn black kings or aces or something into a bluff for that matter if you are willing to fire multiple shells.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your average 1/2 player is snap calling with any reasonable flush here, hence why it's a really bad spot to bluff. Trying to get people off of good hands in reraised pots is almost never a good idea, anyways.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

good fold, he didnt bet the turn that small w/ K9o no heart IMO especially given that he didnt shove river.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

So besides my flop bet being a tad small, does everyone think c/calling the turn is good here?

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

i prefer c/c flop

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

[ QUOTE ]
good fold, he didnt bet the turn that small w/ K9o no heart IMO especially given that he didnt shove river.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I had K9o. Was searching for my name to find a different thread and found this post. Interesting hand that I remember, and it was definetely a bad spot to bluff for me as I said. Keep in mind that I'm more likely to dump off a lot of money as it is playing a bit low for me so even being deep it might seem like less to me.

Now I do personally call with pretty much any hand that has the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in it, but you don't know that which is what makes the bluff bad, IMO... also I think there was a hand right before this that made me do it. Can't remember now what that was though.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

Am I the only one who b/f the turn? Our hand pretty much has no value at this point so are we trying to
a) Outplay a good, tricky, aggro player oop who certainly has it in him to fire 2 delayed barrels making it very tough for us or
b) Spew for no good reason?

If for some reason I did for some reason c/c the turn, I'd definately fold the river for reasons stated above.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

I honestly think turn is a fold. Flop bet is pretty much a bluff here. I prefer to check/call (maybe even check/fold) the flop since I think since he won't fold better, and will often float us/raise and make us give up decent equity in the pot. I think river is close, since you shouldn't be always folding hands this strong to him after calling turn.

Re: sorta deep w/ xorbie
 

what are you doing playing so low xorbie?

anyway i dont like the flop betsize and i call the river (decided this before reading results). if your planning to fold then the place to do it is the turn