Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

This was my first stud hi session ever. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think i was way too agressive.

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.00 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___folds

4th Street - (12.00 SB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (7.50 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls

6th Street - (13.50 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks

River - (13.50 BB)

Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (13.50 BB)

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

First, just call third street. You don't want to knock anyone out by raising. Your hand plays very well against a field of opponents.

On fifth street you need to check/fold. Your strong starting hand hasn't improved and you gotta let it go. This happens alot, you got to be disciplined in stud to not chase when your waaaay behind like you are now. Sixth and seventh are played perfectly though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

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Sixth and seventh are played perfectly though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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seventh isn't

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

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seventh isn't

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After checking through sixth, both opponents will fold more than eight percent of the time, I believe. You've built a huge pot with no hand, and now you only have one way left to dig yourself out. 5th is pretty awful.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

Get 7CS4AP. Third's a call. Fourth's a call. Check and fold fifth. I think sixth and seventh are fine. I don't know what seat 5 would raise fifth with that he won't call one bet with on the river.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
seventh isn't

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After checking through sixth, both opponents will fold more than eight percent of the time, I believe. You've built a huge pot with no hand, and now you only have one way left to dig yourself out. 5th is pretty awful.

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I think betting seventh is -EV. If you were against one opponent I'd say bet, but two opponents...honestly a bet here is no bueno, but hey that's just my opinion.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

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Get 7CS4AP. Third's a call.

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I don't understand this (Yes I have read 7CS4AP although I'm sure I missed a lot). All our spades are live, it appears that the pot will be at LEAST 3-way and possibly more, so raising is probably positive equity just on third. Furthermore, chasing people out may allow us to win this bloated pot with 2 small pair. And as a bonus you may get some deception.

In summary, you either chase people out, which is good, or you bloat a multiway pot with a live draw, which is good.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get 7CS4AP. Third's a call.

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I don't understand this (Yes I have read 7CS4AP although I'm sure I missed a lot). All our spades are live, it appears that the pot will be at LEAST 3-way and possibly more, so raising is probably positive equity just on third. Furthermore, chasing people out may allow us to win this bloated pot with 2 small pair. And as a bonus you may get some deception.

In summary, you either chase people out, which is good, or you bloat a multiway pot with a live draw, which is good.

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you have a dead Ace (possibly two) and no overcard to the raiser. You want to see 4th cheaply and hope to improve by catching a spade. I can see peeling 4th if you miss given the pot size, assuming your cards are still relatively live.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Get 7CS4AP. Third's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this (Yes I have read 7CS4AP although I'm sure I missed a lot). All our spades are live, it appears that the pot will be at LEAST 3-way and possibly more, so raising is probably positive equity just on third. Furthermore, chasing people out may allow us to win this bloated pot with 2 small pair. And as a bonus you may get some deception.

In summary, you either chase people out, which is good, or you bloat a multiway pot with a live draw, which is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have a dead Ace (possibly two) and no overcard to the raiser. You want to see 4th cheaply and hope to improve by catching a spade. I can see peeling 4th if you miss given the pot size, assuming your cards are still relatively live.

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Yeah there are 42 unknown cards, of which 10 are spades, 7 more give us a gutshot, 5 give us a pair, (and I suppose aces are close to dead). So more than half the deck improves us, by fifth there's a 50% chance we'll have a 4-flush and an additional 25% chance that we'll have improved in some other way (although most of that will require that we fold anyway).

There's roughly a 15% chance of having a 4-flush AND a pair, so it would be nice if we can give ourselves a shot to beat an unlucky opponent who is stuck with one pair. Or else if everybody stays in the pot we may have given ourselves odds to go farther with a gutshot and small pair.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

Why raise third street here? three flushes are multi-way hands. It is best to keep as many people in as possible, early. You should lead out on fourth IF you make a spade and are still high, check-raise if you make a pair and 4-flush on fifth.

I dont understand you logic for staying in this hand. You wasted money here.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

You're out of position relative to the raiser. Your raise should tend to knock people out, when you'd really like to keep them in. The value of three-flushes depends some on implied odds, and every raise shortens your implied odds. If you knew that all the limpers were going to call, then raising would be OK, but even there, I prefer to keep the pot on the small side so that the rest of the hand is easier to play. If you just call, you are pretty much guaranteed that you'll have a five-or-more-way pot for one bet, which is very nice for your hand. By raising, you run the risk of having it be three ways for three bets, which is a lot less attractive.

I've read 7CS4AP twenty-something times. Some of it's starting to sink in.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

For stud hi, you can't re-raise 3rd st. with that hand. You definitely fold 5th.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

I don't think you're taking into account that your reraise could very well get you HU against the ace raiser which is the last thing you want. You make much more money when they call and you get to jam 4th or 5th with your flush draw against their one pairs or gutshots.

Re: Made couple of mistakes stud hi
 

I agree with wanting to keep people in on 3rd. I have heard the idea of raising to eiminate players in case u improve otherwise but i think that is just fundamentally wrong. Reese advises for fourth and third you want to see as cheaply as possible and want to keep people in the pot. Everytime i hit a flush i want to get paid. I may even raise on third with FOUR parts if i'm going to get 3/1 on my money on a 2/1 proposition.


Basically everytime you put money in this pot it was a mistake, u should not have even called a raised pot on thrid. Calling a raise on a draw usually means you will not be in a multiway pot (and starting with three on thrid is not good, because usually you will be heads up by fifth--you want at last four callers on the early round and that happens more often in a unraised pot), but reraising to drive more people out.

Did the hand end with seat 7 just having Aces that did not improve and did he win.

You should not have won with a bluff (I say should not would because you never know what people would do) but i think a pot that big a guy even with just aces will still have to call you down, with no open pairs on the board.