Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Hey guys,

Ok so I will give some background. I just turned 19, and am looking for where I should go with a degree to best supply me in the future. I play 2/4nl+ right now, and am getting better and making decent money. Let's assume I will make 6figs every year from poker(This is a very low estimate, I make like 40k in bonuses because I play a lot). Let's also assume I have 6 figures in cash/stocks. I don't invest much right now because I am lost in the stock market and am (probably incorrectly) trying to just learn some stuff first.

So knowing these things, what should I try to lean towards for my 4 year degree in college?

Some more notes:

*I am at a crappy college. It is called Morehead State University, it is in Kentucky. It is mainly known for education and music.
*I am on a full ride, so I have no expenses for the next 4 years, meaning I can save a looott of money by graduation.
*I would like to trade on the markets, and realize it takes a long time to learn this, but I want to put in the time to learn.
*I am currently in the Finance program. I have taken a couple Finance classes and a Business Mngt class. Next semester I will have more finance and some economics classes.
*I would eventually like to diversify my investments into parts of a business or real estate as well.


So where do I go now? What should I do for the time being? How can I learn more about the markets? I assume to be a successful trader I would have to basically finish all 4 years of college to get enough knowledge on the specific subject, if not more, so I should probably start learning more about them on my own. Is my degree what I want? I'm not sure if I want to play poker my whole life, but I want to be something with no boss and flexible hours, so I assume if I can save a lot of capital then playing poker sporadically + passive income from investments + maybe more income from real estate + income from day trading = good to go?


Thanks! Hopefully I can get some good advice!

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Day trading is a full time job if you want to do it right, so if your thinking something more passive then look at real estate. You can put 20% down on a decent SFH in your area pretty easily, and have a property management company do all the work. College towns are always pretty stable for rental property, so that may be your best route.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Well,

I could do day trading in the future as a full-time job, I wouldn't mind this.

I don't understand your real estate terminology, so I will look up some things on that and see if I can figure out what is going on there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


For the college towns thing: I would rather rent in my hometown. I could do it in the college town obviously, but I would like to eventually return to my hometown. It is a small town but we just recently built a new highschool and we have a college within 12 miles or so, so I may consider there eventually. Obviously it looks like I will have to wait a while regardless so I can learn about real estate and how to invest/etc in it, as I don't know anything about it right now.


Also, what kind've long-term returns can one expect to see from investing on the markets? I would do a mixture between long-term and short-term investments in my profile, so not fully day trading but not just letting all of the money sit there. If I did this what kind've returns could I expect after a couple years of doing this? (I am planning on really getting into investing soon and then I will have 4 years of working on it so I am wondering what kind've returns I could look at getting once I got out of college and was 4 years deep into the markets)

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

So no one else has any advice for what I may look at doing to improve my chances of really being set for life?

I am just looking for ideas on what I should do in my situation, I can look up all the details I am just wondering if anyone knows any good ideas for what I should study/research.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Real estate is the way to go. You are in a position to save large amounts of money. Just buy some property and grow your money. Use small amounts for riskier stuff like trading. It is really hard to make money trading for most people.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can I learn more about the markets? I assume to be a successful trader I would have to basically finish all 4 years of college to get enough knowledge on the specific subject, if not more, so I should probably start learning more about them on my own.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's unlikely you will learn anything at all about trading in college.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Engineering or Science degree. With a specific focus on EFFICIENT data mining, genomics, or space travel.

As a 19 year old in a 3rd tier college "financial engineering" is probably too high of a goal.

Learn how to make something, or make something better, and you will be set for life. Or take the easy money and learn Arabic.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

pig4bill;


Next year I am really looking to expand my horizons. Real Estate and Stocks are a very big part of this.


Why do you say I won't learn anything in college? Do you have any recommendations for somewhere to learn? If this is something very important in my life(I think it is), I will pay almost any amount for the training needed.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
pig4bill;


Next year I am really looking to expand my horizons. Real Estate and Stocks are a very big part of this.


Why do you say I won't learn anything in college? Do you have any recommendations for somewhere to learn? If this is something very important in my life(I think it is), I will pay almost any amount for the training needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all Congrats Prodigy for making these goals at a young age( i feel like such an old man,...ugh).

Making these goals with a REALISTIC outcome is the most important part of the equation IMO

I think what pig4bill was implying was...you are NOT going to learn much about trading in school,I belive he is is 100% correct

I dont exactly know the specific answer as to WHY.....but in my 20yrs of experience...most of the college grads that arrived on WS(whether it be a BA,Masters,Phd,JD or whatever)...had NO CLUE as to any of the in's and outs of WS finance,and depending on what firm they eventually worked for ...their implied sucessful learning curve was primarily based on WHO they worked WITH as a trader/mentor.

Out of a 100 graduates(all with the same schooling ,GPA,drive and motivation,etc)....from a PURE trading perspective,the ones that worked alongside or were mentored by the best/most suceessful traders...had the best chance of being a great trader themselves

The real-life experience gained from these individuals is unattainable at school,reading books,experimenting yourself,or the plain ole' "trail and error" method

Some of the best traders I knew had GED's(lol its true).....so the depth of your education wont mean chit 2 yrs down the road AFTER you get your job.Its only going to matter what you produce in profits from trading that count

Its basically going to be a "show me the money" trane of thought from the firms staking alot of money with you and your decisions on the line each day

Now ...this could also mean trading for a smaller prop house,where you have an equity financial risk at stake(you put up a percentage of your daily BP'er)....as compared to the big firms where your only as good as your LAST trade.

As to investing in Real Estate from monies earned from a job ,stock market investing,family money or even playing poker...this is a tried and true way of making you a wealthy man by retirement age,with MUCH less stress,non-split second decisions,and being invested in a leveraged instrument building a net worth that rivals little.You dont need a Phd,and can start off small...buying a 1 family house to live in renting out rooms,and working your way up to multi-family homes ,up to and including commercial buildings!

MOST wealthy real eastate entrepreneurs dont nessaceraly have a college degree.They have read alot of books,researched areas,foreclosures,listened/learned from friends or family members,and started off doing it their spare time.I believe they get EXACTLY as much out of it,as they put into it

I would venture to guess 90%+ of those that properly invest in real estate,dont OVERLEVERAGE themselves,do their homework,research well,build good credit(very important),......will be extremely pleased with their results/returns in 20+ yrs.

If some of these young bright HSNL poker minds....would invest the vast majority of their winnings in rental apts/houses/commercial strips on a yearly basis....not only are they taking monies that earn NOTHING and putting them to work,they are taking money off the poker table and lowering their chance of ROR as well.This is very stable and safe way to leverage your earnings to greater heights

Now if these same bright minds THINK they can invest in the stock market so easily....SLOW DOWN...there are MANY more factors/intricacies that come into play,that it can sometimes also co-incide with a gambling type mentality that I think many poker players are naive to when first touching the market.
Daytrading,dealing with options with little or NO experience,margin abuse,etc...can amount to huge losses if they think it is like playing hold em'....it is NOT

If we take it to the LAST step and say you want to "just be trader"...there are COUNTLESS variables.It takes alot of time,losses ,hard knocks,and no matter what anyone says.....experience is the ONLY way you will truly learn/and master this art.
It is a FULLTIME job...no if,ands or buts

When I first bought the Daytrading arm of my company.....I would literally have 100's of diff. prospective DT'ers sit RIGHT next to me at the trade desk,have the same info I did,I would tell them which stocks I was screening,looking to buy/short,and actually execute right in front of them,while they had the SAME software,computer set-ups,sqwawk to listen too....whatever.....and they COULDNT successfully do it.Be it speed,quick thinking,OVER thinking,balls,whatever...it just isnt meant for everybody,and only an EXTREME few even had a chance.They would show losses as I would show a profit on the SAME type trade...and I would scratch my head in frustration time after time

After several months of this pre-screening process "MAYBE" 10 guys of every 100 ....even had a CHANCE at being a successful trader year over year( i am not talking about ONE good trade..ONE good month...or ONE good year).I am talking about year after year after year.

When I would peruse the firms daily P+Ls...the same few guys made money day in and day out.It got to be where the most profitable trades were almost a given by these same talented few individuals

I actually came to believe that the split second decisions/hardcore mentality needed to become a great trader.....was HARDER for the math wiz types that got 800 on their SAT's,graduated from PENN with an MB,and was currently thinking about attaining his doctorate?

It is really an individual situation,with everybodies success being a case by case story

Good Luck
Stephen [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

***if you have any other questions ....feel free to just ask

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Thanks!

A lot of great insight there!

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Hey guys,


Say I am looking to start a somewhat aggressive plan to start saving money. I will put 5k in an account and reinvest 2k-5k per month there-after. What is a good breakdown for the stocks I could choose? What do you guys think of this:

EFA EURO-ASIA INDX (MSCI-ISHARES) 15.00% $300.00
IWD RUSSELL 1000 VALUE (ISHARES) 40.00% $800.00
IWF RUSSELL 1000 GROWTH (ISHARES) 35.00% $700.00
IWM RUSSELL 2000 INDEX (ISHARES) 7.00% $140.00
TIP LEH US TREAS INF FD (ISHARES) 3.00% $60.00

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys,



Say I am looking to start a somewhat aggressive plan to start saving money. I will put 5k in an account and reinvest 2k-5k per month there-after. What is a good breakdown for the stocks I could choose? What do you guys think of this:

EFA EURO-ASIA INDX (MSCI-ISHARES) 15.00% $300.00
IWD RUSSELL 1000 VALUE (ISHARES) 40.00% $800.00
IWF RUSSELL 1000 GROWTH (ISHARES) 35.00% $700.00
IWM RUSSELL 2000 INDEX (ISHARES) 7.00% $140.00
TIP LEH US TREAS INF FD (ISHARES) 3.00% $60.00

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Prodigy,

How old are you ,and what is your income/career at the moment......as well and goals/risk tolerance/approx. age you would like to "retire" going foward ?

I am also assuming you are OPENING the account with $5k...and then buying the additional proportional amounts from your list with $2k-$5k of NEW money(from a job,poker earnings,other income,whatever)

Stephen [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

EDIT: I just realized I responded to you above,and you already said that you just turned 19....SORRY [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I also LIKE it so far,but will amend/suggest from here after some more input from you [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

wtf you just turned 19 and make that much from poker thats crazy. i barely beat 10-25 nl though i only play a couple hours a week. seriously, how do you become that good at poker to make that much consistently, you probably have to be beating 200 nl since after variance you make around 100k a year right? im 19 too and just landed a project coordinator job for a construction company in west hollywood and i thought i was doing good (im 19 too). were you coached in poker? read every thread in the strategy forums? a few months ago i was beating the $5.50 sngs at bodog but now im barely break even to the point where its not worth playin anymore, my biggest cashout was $900 after a month of playing (keep in mind i never played much, a few hours some nights of the week). i have a hundred some dollars left in bodog but havent had the time to play again. hearing stories of people who make it in poker makes me want to improve my own game. any advice from OP or snyone else is appreciated. thanks.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

When I was 19.. haha, not like im old now, only 21.

SN is right. Im in senior year of a finance degree and iv learned almost nothing practical in school that would really help me as an equity investor that I couldnt have taught myself. As a trader, forget it, they look down on trading and dont address it. Read this forum, read the paper every day, and read a ton of investing books, then try to get some real life experience if only in a mock portfolio to start.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys,



Say I am looking to start a somewhat aggressive plan to start saving money. I will put 5k in an account and reinvest 2k-5k per month there-after. What is a good breakdown for the stocks I could choose? What do you guys think of this:

EFA EURO-ASIA INDX (MSCI-ISHARES) 15.00% $300.00
IWD RUSSELL 1000 VALUE (ISHARES) 40.00% $800.00
IWF RUSSELL 1000 GROWTH (ISHARES) 35.00% $700.00
IWM RUSSELL 2000 INDEX (ISHARES) 7.00% $140.00
TIP LEH US TREAS INF FD (ISHARES) 3.00% $60.00

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello Prodigy,

How old are you ,and what is your income/career at the moment......as well and goals/risk tolerance/approx. age you would like to "retire" going foward ?

I am also assuming you are OPENING the account with $5k...and then buying the additional proportional amounts from your list with $2k-$5k of NEW money(from a job,poker earnings,other income,whatever)

Stephen [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

EDIT: I just realized I responded to you above,and you already said that you just turned 19....SORRY [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

I also LIKE it so far,but will amend/suggest from here after some more input from you [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Will reply to the other things next but will start here.

Stephen, first off thanks for the help, it is really appreciated.

I am 19, just turned at end of sept(9/29), so barely 19 still [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am playing poker "professionally." I make 40k off bonuses, and this year I made a "certain" amount from poker as well. I can't say what next year's income will be, as I started this year with $300 at 25nl, and am now beating(NO JINX PLZ) 400nl. Many of the players at my level with my volume of play are setting goals at 250, 275, 300k. I play 80-100k hands a month, FWIW. I am going to set my conservative goal at 150k, and my "well done" goal at 200k. This is so preliminary, and I have no use for the money so it is no big deal if things don't work out/etc, I am just using these figures for your help.

I kind've planned on using this particular account as my excess poker acct, so cashing out to this account. I can start this account with ~15k as that is an amount that would leave enough in this bank and let me pay taxes as well as not messing with my other investments. I was just going to start it with 5k because it is geared towards an aggressive portfolio(I think lol). Also, that would let me hit my goal of 2k easy each month since I still have excess, but obviously I know investing it all at first would be better, so do with it what you will [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Anyways, with the income: I make around 3k if not more on average with bonuses. I generally win each month, and my losing months generally can be put into + months by bonuses. I know there is variance and I know I can have a losing month easily, so I can't always hit my goal if I want to. I also, like I said, play like 100k hands a month, so it makes me win more often as variance evens out some.

I am thinking I should go for an aggressive investing strategy. The money is negligible, as in I have no reason for the money to be worried about. If I lost it that would be "bad," but it has no use and it isn't going to kill me in any way if I did lose it. So I am thinking aggressive is the best way to go? I also don't want to have a minimal risk of ruin, so I don't want to go over the top.
Thank you!

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
wtf you just turned 19 and make that much from poker thats crazy. i barely beat 10-25 nl though i only play a couple hours a week. seriously, how do you become that good at poker to make that much consistently, you probably have to be beating 200 nl since after variance you make around 100k a year right? im 19 too and just landed a project coordinator job for a construction company in west hollywood and i thought i was doing good (im 19 too). were you coached in poker? read every thread in the strategy forums? a few months ago i was beating the $5.50 sngs at bodog but now im barely break even to the point where its not worth playin anymore, my biggest cashout was $900 after a month of playing (keep in mind i never played much, a few hours some nights of the week). i have a hundred some dollars left in bodog but havent had the time to play again. hearing stories of people who make it in poker makes me want to improve my own game. any advice from OP or snyone else is appreciated. thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, ahnuld: I am investing right now quite a bit. I have been for a year, but I admit I am such a novice at it. I think Buffett said the worst thing someone can do is not invest, so I took that advice and threw it in blindly. I mostly invest in ETF's now as they can diversify my portfolio but don't leave me much risk of losing a lot by picking individual stocks.

Now, to the quoted [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am beating 400nl, but am only marginally beating it right now. I can't say how I got so good at it, I guess just volume. I started playing 25nl with $300 in January, and have played like ~1mill hands. I read a couple books to get me started, but they didn't help me past 100nl at all.

I received some coaching, but it was just recently and on a game(Full-ring) I know a lot about, and it is also a game that isn't as diverse as 6max, so I didn't have much to discuss and/or learn. I am going to eventually get some coaching in 6m and HU, but as of now I am self taught, mostly by volume and studying pokertracker and reviewing hands. FYI, I have all intentions of eventually being at the top of this game, and hopefully my dedication and work can pay off to eventually get me there. Good luck on your career choices and I hope you can work on improving your game, but I promise it isn't easy!

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
80-100k hands a month

[/ QUOTE ]

... so jealous.

gl.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Hello Prodigy

First of all I have to say WOW!

If what you are saying is true,and you are in fact 19yrs old.....just your foresight alone to start investing NOW,and being an open-minded novice(not some 16yr old online poker winning know it all PUNK)...just blows me away

Congrats man

As far as earning that kind of money($150k+ playing online poker is awesome)...even if unsustainable for various reasons we can get into later.If you choose to do this over many years...start NOW and always SEPARATE your poker BR from your investments

I am pretty impressed(and that aint easy...lol) by your writing abilty,willingness to learn,listen,and understand...and mostly your poker success at such a young age.It says alot already about your character,and the greater chances of you STAYING financially successful going foward.

The ONE key thing I am concerned about is that you just mention POKER.As you MUST know already....many young poker pro's are ignorant to the fact of a back-up plan,and put blinders on to the fact that poker is ALL there is to life at the moment.....it AINT

Are you in college or plan to attend for any other career choice "IF" poker doesnt provide the income/challenge/oppurtunity/security/etc....say TEN years from now?

We can get back to that later if ness....but I must say the aggressive strategy you mentioned above is a PERFECT start,and other members can guide you to other balanced funds/portfolios as well.....but PLEASE listen to the following:

1. Keep your poker BR/and any monies you take out of your poker account for investment purposes totally SEPARATE.
NO IF,AND's or BUT's!

2.As I mentioned above,the fact that you already realize that POKER and INVESTING(although having some mildly similar traits)are comepletely differant animals.....do not ever forget this.The fact of just putting your money to work in MF's or stock/bond index's takes A TON of the guesswork out of "beating the market" yourself

3.DO what you do BEST right NOW...play POKER.
In other words....I have seen countless people make some serious scores at a very young age(poker,BIG lottery winngers,inheritances,etc)and for example....."well I will just go daytrade,as that must be easy..and its then SAME thing anyway"....UNTIL YOU understand the many pitfalls of the stock markets,DO NOT FALL into this trap,So if you have what it takes to make that kind of money in poker NOW....stay with it until proven otherwise

4. DO NOT GAMBLE...on anything YOU dont feel you have a REAL EDGE on...I am VERY SERIOUS about this dangerous arena

5.Stay away from ALL the bad vices that the "average 19yr balla' thinks is cool"....lol...you will think otherwise in 10 yrs how STUPID some of the things you did that wasted/lost a ton of money when you were younger

6.If for ANY reason things change (you start LOSING at poker,lack of interest,desires change,relationship issues,etc)....you can always STOP and evaluate again and start a new carrer path...BUT your investment plan will have already started taking shape.

I feel like I am lecturing my 22yr old son....lol....BUT believe me you will thank me many years down the road

Apply/disipline yourself to opening your account with $5k NOW....and withdraw/deposit $2k-$5k per month into your various funds on a monthly basis(its called dollar cost averaging) ..the funds/percentages can ALWAYS be fine tuned down the road

....but again START NOW!

And Thank Me in 20 yrs when you turn 40 [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

GG ,
Stephen

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

stephen,


Thanks for all the kind words of encouragement. To answer your first worries about college, yes, I am currently taking finance/investing with a minor(maybe) in econ as a college freshman. (*BRAG Alert*) I am actually on a full ride, so it allows me to grow my poker and investment "bankrolls" without any expenses. This is great as it gives me 4 years to ever start having to live in the real world [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. So as of now I have ~200 or so in expenses per month, so that is very nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].


Anyways, all your advice is well received. A lot of the things you mention are of course things I have thought about as well. As for starting now, as I mentioned, I started about a year ago [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I am more than anything looking for ideas on what I need to do next, as well as if I should change my investing portfolio from risk averse to aggressive(I obviously know I should now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ).

So my next question: If you were me(but with all this knowledge about the markets), what would your portfolio look like? Is mine a good idea, or should I be looking to change it? Do you agree with the alloted percentages and choices I have given each section?

Thanks!

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

And you even have a full ride to a four yr school!!
Thats just GREAT [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

You have some future ahead of you kiddo',as I am quite impressed
As far as your current holdings NOW....I wouldnt change anything ATM

Stephen

*** read one of my other posts above with regard to some basic T/A,and MY current positions/opinions on the market so I dont have to duplicate posts...as when you get old like me......lol...you get lazy [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

My two cents:

First, I'm assuming you are keeping a seperate bankroll for poker and taking buy-ins above that recommended level for your NL game will go to an investment plan.

To start:

1. Max out your Roth IRAs for 2007 and 2008 ($9,000)
- Investment - Target Retirement 2040 or something from Vanguard.

2. Save 6 months of expenses in a money market/bank CD that is emergency money only. You're on a full ride, but think about what the real world would cost with rent and food and get this amount.

3. Make periodic passive index investments in tax advantaged index mutual funds or ETFs and forget about it and focus on poker and getting a good degree. Create an asset allocation and stick to it and rebalance as new money comes in. Don't time the market. Read Four Pillars of Investing by Bernstein and All About Assest Allocation by Ferri and create an asset mix you're happy with.

4. Make sure to plan for taxes and plan to get a good accountant in April.

--Jeff

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

stephen;

Thanks for the kind words and the advice. I hope you are right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jeff;

Yes, you are correct on your first assumption.

1) I need to look into IRAs ASAP. Thank you for reminding me
2) 6 months of expenses are in a high yield savings account
3) This is what I am heading towards. I don't want to actively invest right now, just put it there and leave it. I will look into both of those books, thanks
4) Already got a CPA(I think this is the correct term for tax specialist, heh). Why do I need a good accountant?

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]

1. Max out your Roth IRAs for 2007 and 2008 ($9,000)
- Investment - Target Retirement 2040 or something from Vanguard.


[/ QUOTE ]

I believe Roth IRA contributions have to be "earned income," and gambling winnings don't qualify (unless you file as a professional gambler... probably a bad idea). Thus, unless you made $4500 working some 'regular job' this last year, I don't think you can deposit into a Roth account.

Correct me if I'm wrong - in fact plz shoot me a PM if I am, because this is my situation and I'd like to fill my Roth if possible.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Already got a CPA(I think this is the correct term for tax specialist, heh). Why do I need a good accountant?

[/ QUOTE ]

CPA = Certified Public Accountant

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Sorry,

What is the formal name of one who specializes in taxes?

Anyways, I am starting this investment program at the beginning of 2008(for many different reasons), and would once again like to thank anyone and everyone who helped me out in this thread.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

I re-read your OP. Your question to me about why you wouldn't learn trading in college was ably answered already. It just something that isn't taught. Except maybe at NYU and a couple other schools.

It sounds like you want to live in your old hometown after school? Figure out what kind of jobs are there. An engineering degree won't do you any good if nobody wants to hire an engineer there. You mentioned schools. Ever consider being a teacher? The pay isn't great but it's not bad either, the benefits are killer, and the job security is nearly unmatched. Plus you get summers off. Your college is big in education, so it seems like a good match.

As for where to learn how to trade. I just got back from the Vegas Traders Expo, and there are more trading schools than ever. As in any arena, some of them seem like ripoffs and are probably more hype than substance. Go to a Money Show or Traders Expo and soak up everything you can. When you start buying books or signing up for schools or services, go slow. The more you learn about this stuff, the more you'll be able to figure out what schools and services will be worthwhile and what won't.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
pig4bill;


Next year I am really looking to expand my horizons. Real Estate and Stocks are a very big part of this.


Why do you say I won't learn anything in college? Do you have any recommendations for somewhere to learn? If this is something very important in my life(I think it is), I will pay almost any amount for the training needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all Congrats Prodigy for making these goals at a young age( i feel like such an old man,...ugh).

Making these goals with a REALISTIC outcome is the most important part of the equation IMO

I think what pig4bill was implying was...you are NOT going to learn much about trading in school,I belive he is is 100% correct

I dont exactly know the specific answer as to WHY.....but in my 20yrs of experience...most of the college grads that arrived on WS(whether it be a BA,Masters,Phd,JD or whatever)...had NO CLUE as to any of the in's and outs of WS finance,and depending on what firm they eventually worked for ...their implied sucessful learning curve was primarily based on WHO they worked WITH as a trader/mentor.

Out of a 100 graduates(all with the same schooling ,GPA,drive and motivation,etc)....from a PURE trading perspective,the ones that worked alongside or were mentored by the best/most suceessful traders...had the best chance of being a great trader themselves

The real-life experience gained from these individuals is unattainable at school,reading books,experimenting yourself,or the plain ole' "trail and error" method

Some of the best traders I knew had GED's(lol its true).....so the depth of your education wont mean chit 2 yrs down the road AFTER you get your job.Its only going to matter what you produce in profits from trading that count

Its basically going to be a "show me the money" trane of thought from the firms staking alot of money with you and your decisions on the line each day

Now ...this could also mean trading for a smaller prop house,where you have an equity financial risk at stake(you put up a percentage of your daily BP'er)....as compared to the big firms where your only as good as your LAST trade.

As to investing in Real Estate from monies earned from a job ,stock market investing,family money or even playing poker...this is a tried and true way of making you a wealthy man by retirement age,with MUCH less stress,non-split second decisions,and being invested in a leveraged instrument building a net worth that rivals little.You dont need a Phd,and can start off small...buying a 1 family house to live in renting out rooms,and working your way up to multi-family homes ,up to and including commercial buildings!

MOST wealthy real eastate entrepreneurs dont nessaceraly have a college degree.They have read alot of books,researched areas,foreclosures,listened/learned from friends or family members,and started off doing it their spare time.I believe they get EXACTLY as much out of it,as they put into it

I would venture to guess 90%+ of those that properly invest in real estate,dont OVERLEVERAGE themselves,do their homework,research well,build good credit(very important),......will be extremely pleased with their results/returns in 20+ yrs.

If some of these young bright HSNL poker minds....would invest the vast majority of their winnings in rental apts/houses/commercial strips on a yearly basis....not only are they taking monies that earn NOTHING and putting them to work,they are taking money off the poker table and lowering their chance of ROR as well.This is very stable and safe way to leverage your earnings to greater heights

Now if these same bright minds THINK they can invest in the stock market so easily....SLOW DOWN...there are MANY more factors/intricacies that come into play,that it can sometimes also co-incide with a gambling type mentality that I think many poker players are naive to when first touching the market.
Daytrading,dealing with options with little or NO experience,margin abuse,etc...can amount to huge losses if they think it is like playing hold em'....it is NOT

If we take it to the LAST step and say you want to "just be trader"...there are COUNTLESS variables.It takes alot of time,losses ,hard knocks,and no matter what anyone says.....experience is the ONLY way you will truly learn/and master this art.
It is a FULLTIME job...no if,ands or buts

When I first bought the Daytrading arm of my company.....I would literally have 100's of diff. prospective DT'ers sit RIGHT next to me at the trade desk,have the same info I did,I would tell them which stocks I was screening,looking to buy/short,and actually execute right in front of them,while they had the SAME software,computer set-ups,sqwawk to listen too....whatever.....and they COULDNT successfully do it.Be it speed,quick thinking,OVER thinking,balls,whatever...it just isnt meant for everybody,and only an EXTREME few even had a chance.They would show losses as I would show a profit on the SAME type trade...and I would scratch my head in frustration time after time

After several months of this pre-screening process "MAYBE" 10 guys of every 100 ....even had a CHANCE at being a successful trader year over year( i am not talking about ONE good trade..ONE good month...or ONE good year).I am talking about year after year after year.

When I would peruse the firms daily P+Ls...the same few guys made money day in and day out.It got to be where the most profitable trades were almost a given by these same talented few individuals

I actually came to believe that the split second decisions/hardcore mentality needed to become a great trader.....was HARDER for the math wiz types that got 800 on their SAT's,graduated from PENN with an MB,and was currently thinking about attaining his doctorate?

It is really an individual situation,with everybodies success being a case by case story

Good Luck
Stephen [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

***if you have any other questions ....feel free to just ask

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This is one of the best posts I've read in awhile. I am/was involved in much of this type stuff including day trading and it's much MUCH easier said than done to be successful at this. As Doyle Brunson said "there's no substitute for experience". You can read all the books you want but some people just have 'it' and some people don't.

I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.

I just bought a house in February. Bought it for 351k, it was worth 375k, and now is worth 400k. 50k I've made this year. That same $ I used to day trade with was what I had paid for down payment for my home and this is the easiest 50k I've ever made. IMO through my experiences thus far with poker/stocks/real estate and through what I've seen through others is buy real estate if you have a good chunk of $ and use a smaller chunk of $ for stocks or 'fun' money as I like to call it. Use this fun $ to fiddle with stocks if that's what you want to do and use it to learn with. Fun $ should be $ that won't necessarily hurt you if you bomb and lose it. Hope this helps a bit.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

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I re-read your OP. Your question to me about why you wouldn't learn trading in college was ably answered already. It just something that isn't taught. Except maybe at NYU and a couple other schools.

It sounds like you want to live in your old hometown after school? Figure out what kind of jobs are there. An engineering degree won't do you any good if nobody wants to hire an engineer there. You mentioned schools. Ever consider being a teacher? The pay isn't great but it's not bad either, the benefits are killer, and the job security is nearly unmatched. Plus you get summers off. Your college is big in education, so it seems like a good match.

As for where to learn how to trade. I just got back from the Vegas Traders Expo, and there are more trading schools than ever. As in any arena, some of them seem like ripoffs and are probably more hype than substance. Go to a Money Show or Traders Expo and soak up everything you can. When you start buying books or signing up for schools or services, go slow. The more you learn about this stuff, the more you'll be able to figure out what schools and services will be worthwhile and what won't.

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Well I am really hoping to gear towards other things now. I think if I can make a good profit at these games playing where I play(the players here are setting goals at like 275k when playing as many hands as I do), then I can just invest all this money I save as well as continue playing. Do I know if this will turn out how I want? Absolutely not, and that is why I am staying in school. I think with how I love competition and can handle these swings, my next stop would be the markets. I think a Finance degree then branching into a couple trading schools is a good way to get this to be my option B, if the first option falls through.

As of now I don't know how things will go, but I don't know about teaching as an option. I like teaching others, but am actually impatient when teaching/being in a school. Repeating things/etc isn't my thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I am not going to throw this out, as I really really do enjoy helping other people, and this is one avenue that I could take, but the problem is I really do enjoy money. A couple of years ago I would've said money is #1 to me, and now I don't think like this. I know there are so many more important things, but setting myself up financially is a big thing to me still. If this part of me continues to fade, then teaching may be an option [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Thanks again

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.


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It certainly depends on your temperament and interest in the subject. I'm up at 6 am for the 6:30 open. The market closes at 1 pm, but I'm watching the after-hours action until at least 2 pm, often till 4 pm. I'd trade till 6 pm if the market stayed open that long. I've been trading low-intensity style since the 70's, and high-intensity style for over 10 years. I love this [censored].

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I remember my first trade my first day of day trading. I had practiced fake buying/selling for a couple weeks after reading some books and decided I had done good enough to giver. I had about 11k in my account and I made 3300 dollars in 20 minutes the first day. I thought I was just a natural at this and was figuring how much I'd make for the year. Boy was I in for a rude awakening. I went the next 3 months roughly breaking even and learned a ton in the process. I soon realized I didnt' think it was for me. Staring at a chart go up and down that much for hours on end gets pretty boring and it wasn't as fun as I thought it would be. It was hours of boredom and moments of terror. I had a guy on another poker forum had been helping me out teaching me a lot and told me some stocks he was thinking of getting. Turns out it was high risk stock and I was unaware and as I was seconds away from buying it, a 1.71 stock I was ready to put 12k into, dropped like a sack of rocks to .30 cents ... I would have basically dropped everything I had. I found out 3-4 months in that it wasn't something I wanted to do. It was quiet stressful and I can see why so many stock guys are burned out in there 20's.


[/ QUOTE ]

It certainly depends on your temperament and interest in the subject. I'm up at 6 am for the 6:30 open. The market closes at 1 pm, but I'm watching the after-hours action until at least 2 pm, often till 4 pm. I'd trade till 6 pm if the market stayed open that long. I've been trading low-intensity style since the 70's, and high-intensity style for over 10 years. I love this [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds perfect.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

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Sorry,

What is the formal name of one who specializes in taxes?

Anyways, I am starting this investment program at the beginning of 2008(for many different reasons), and would once again like to thank anyone and everyone who helped me out in this thread.

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Please take no offense to this, but if you don't know what a CPA is, then I am pretty certain you have zero expertise/specialization in accounting or taxation.

Re: Young guy, looking for advice on where to go next.
 

Well I never claimed to know anything about taxes [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I definitely have no idea about this.


As for accounting, I have minimal experience as in I took an accounting class in high school, know about balance sheets, income statements, cash flow, and a couple other things. I also use Quicken as a simple way to watch my finances and view my spending and things. But other than that, I would never claim to know much more than that about either of those fields [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]