statism day one
 

You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

A little frustrated about the AC-mock-fest going on in the other thread? This post should be in that thread.

EDIT: Can I suggest an AC board so that this endless debate, and all other posts questioning the legitimacy of the state can be had there? I count 4 threads related to AC among the first 10 listed on this forum.

Or, conversely, can I suggest the creation of a Politics Forum, while this forum be renamed the Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, to reflect its true nature?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

After all, the plans were on public display at the new Planning Office for a full six hours.

Re: statism day one
 

Of course we evil statists recognize the fact that there are such things as illegitimate states, and one that behaved in such a fashion would be one. Unfortunately in AC I have no instutionalized recourse against personal violence of this sort other than to go hire someone with more guns to perpetuate the cycle, or hope that my family or friends do so if I do indeed take a bullet in the noggin.

Re: statism day one
 

How can you call this an AC forum when there's an entire thread mocking it?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
How can you call this an AC forum when there's an entire thread mocking it?

[/ QUOTE ]

By "AC Forum", I don't mean that there's alot of AC supporters here; just that the only topic of conversation is AC/the legitimacy of the state/taxation -- which is, of course, an exaggeration; but I don't think it's THAT much of an exaggeration.

Resignation Day One
 

[ QUOTE ]
When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head. Now what?


[/ QUOTE ]
For any of your survivors who were willing to spin that cylinder one more time, the UN would be the proper forum to present grievances. The UN would certainly issue some sort of strongly worded statement assuring the world of it's commitment to human rights. They might even get a good lunch out of the deal (the food is great over there).

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

A little frustrated about the AC-mock-fest going on in the other thread? This post should be in that thread.

EDIT: Can I suggest an AC board so that this endless debate, and all other posts questioning the legitimacy of the state can be had there? I count 4 threads related to AC among the first 10 listed on this forum.

Or, conversely, can I suggest the creation of a Politics Forum, while this forum be renamed the Anarcho-Capitalist Forum, to reflect its true nature?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather have intellectually stimulating debates about AC than read another 50 "Bush lied" threads.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have intellectually stimulating debates about AC than read another 50 "Bush lied" threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

The good news is that we are now in an election year. Those posters who live in states with an interesting Senate, House or other race coming up can regale us with what is happening there.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have intellectually stimulating debates about AC than read another 50 "Bush lied" threads.

[/ QUOTE ]


There are intellectually stimulating debates about AC going on here?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Does, does, does this mean I can't shoot people anymore and take their wallets? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
WHY GOD, WHY?

By the ways, this may or may not be true, but I have recently heard that Bush lied. I'll keep you guys posted [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather have intellectually stimulating debates about AC than read another 50 "Bush lied" threads.

[/ QUOTE ]


There are intellectually stimulating debates about AC going on here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Zing! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: statism day one
 

you really wake up

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the ways, this may or may not be true, but I have recently heard that Bush lied. I'll keep you guys posted

[/ QUOTE ] Not sure why, but I find this great.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man. When you wake up, you discover that a huge government bureaucracy has sprung up overnight. They have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new indoctrination facility. When you object, the bureaucrat reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoots you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Does, does, does this mean I can't shoot people anymore and take their wallets? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
WHY GOD, WHY?

By the ways, this may or may not be true, but I have recently heard that Bush lied. I'll keep you guys posted [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to shoot people and take their wallets in the a statist system. At least you know that they won't be able to defend themselves (concealed weapon laws) and that all you have to avoid is the highly inefficient law enforcement bureaucracy (who are out busting some drug dealers for the devestating crime of engaging in voluntary transactions), then you are home free.

Re: statism day one
 

Pssst. He doesn't know that most murders, rapes, robberies, and burglaries go unsolved. Don't break his little statist bubble.

Re: statism day one
 

migrate over to the forum on mises.org

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
Pssst. He doesn't know that most murders, rapes, robberies, and burglaries go unsolved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unsolved? From a statist position does this mean that they are non-existent or simply inelligible?

Re: statism day one
 

The Don, you are the light in my life. Now that I know I can shoot people again, all I have to do is figure out how to take the bullet out of my brain that pvn shot me with. Once that is done, it's back to business. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
... all I have to do is figure out how to take the bullet out of my brain that pvn shot me with. Once that is done, it's back to business.

[/ QUOTE ]
Once you're back to business, write to us so we can provide instructions regarding what to do with it.

Re: statism day one
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Pssst. He doesn't know that most murders, rapes, robberies, and burglaries go unsolved.

[/ QUOTE ]
Unsolved? From a statist position does this mean that they are non-existent or simply inelligible?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's simply a matter of the police needing more resources because they are chronically underfunded.

Re: statism day one
 

forkoverthefuckingmoneybitch.com does not exist.

Police are funded to the degree the people who fund them feel they can provide security -- any funding beyond that point leads to intrusion and oppression.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
forkoverthefuckingmoneybitch.com does not exist.

Police are funded to the degree the people who fund them feel they can provide security -- any funding beyond that point leads to intrusion and oppression.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say that underfunding is necessarily the problem, but the misallocation of resources toward non-aggressive crimes certainly is.

Re: statism day one
 

The purpose of the police is purportedly to provide security. If the people believe this, they are tricked into personally spending less on their own security. This incentivises criminal activity, and crime will go up. The police can never have enough resources to take responsibility for all the people that have been tricked into behaving irresponsibly. Hence crime will inevitably rise, the police do not have enough resources, and claim that they are "chronically underfunded." Taxes are raised, the people feel even more like it's the government's job to protect them, since they are paying so much for the "service," and they spend even less on their own security. Crime is incentivised even more, and the cycle continues. It is not a coincidence that crime is highest where government spends the most on the police, but the direction of causation is not the way most people think it is. Politicians exacerbate the problems by passing laws to make it illegal for individuals to spend on and act in their own defense at all, for example gun bans.

The same effect is seen in other areas where people are tricked into believing that they are not responsible for some individual personal responsibility and the government is. Education is probably the best example.

Re: statism day one
 

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The police can never have enough resources to take responsibility for all the people that have been tricked into behaving irresponsibly. Hence crime will inevitably rise, the police do not have enough resources, and claim that they are "chronically underfunded."

[/ QUOTE ]
It's really just simple economics. Consider burglary -- the police simply show up to take a statement for you to submit to your insurance company. They may take a few prints, and pictures -- they may even spend a few minutes trying to solve the crime -- but that's not their main function. If they do catch a thief, it's as much a surprise to them as anyone else.

As a community, we collectively know that it's cheaper to purchase insurance than to purchase enough police power to create a deterrent. The cost of our insurance is what we pay as our share of the "acceptable loss" from theft. We don't have as a community any corresponding "acceptable loss" of life, or tolerance for violence -- so that's where we focus police activity.

I find it amazing that we all tolerate theft and loss of property -- yet have zero tolerance for drugs, prostitution, etc. Sometimes our priorities are really screwed up.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
I find it amazing that we all tolerate theft and loss of property -- yet have zero tolerance for drugs, prostitution, etc. Sometimes our priorities are really screwed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it ridiculous that we live in such a pussified society that we still don't lynch Law Enforcement "professionals" who have the gall to tell people not to resist during a hold-up and tell women fighting a rapist may get them killed.

I've been held up once, I performed a citizens arrest, and purposely held the barrel of my .45 on the back of that bastard's neck until the cops showed up.

Watching him cry was my greatest reward. While prison is not a deterrant, I feel fairly certain that teenage punk will never attempt another robbery after he is released, and that I will have helped turn him into a productive member of society.

Law Enforcement isn't underfunded, they're overstaffed. That's part of the taxation problem in America. The police are not your private security force. The job of a police officer is actually quite simple. He/she is to accept calls when a crime has been committed, and document it in legal fashion, suitable for court use. That is literally all a cop is supposed to do. If they want to come work your burglary call two days later, like a plumber, I personally have no problem with that, as I am equipped to deal with an invader in my home without the assistance of a heavily armed court reporter. I'm not quite sure when we as Americans started hiring thousands and thousands of cops to handle barking dog calls and [censored], but it needs to stop. Do you know who's sole responsibility your security is? Yours. Handle it anyway you see fit.

Re: statism day one
 

we've all come a long way in a year and a half huh? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: statism day one
 

You go to sleep a free man in a somewhat organized society. When you wake up, you discover that the entire government bureaucracy has disappeared overnight. You neighbors or others have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new facility they feel they need to maximize the return of their property. When you object, the neighbors and the posse they can afford to pay and arm reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoot you in the head.

Now what?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]


Police are funded to the degree the people who fund them feel they can provide security -- any funding beyond that point leads to intrusion and oppression.

[/ QUOTE ]


SO since the police provide virtually no security, we should be giving them virtually no money ?? sounds perfect to me when do we start ?

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man in a somewhat organized society. When you wake up, you discover that the entire government bureaucracy has disappeared overnight. You neighbors or others have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new facility they feel they need to maximize the return of their property. When you object, the neighbors and the posse they can afford to pay and arm reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoot you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for bad understanding of ACism.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Police are funded to the degree the people who fund them feel they can provide security -- any funding beyond that point leads to intrusion and oppression.

[/ QUOTE ]


SO since the police provide virtually no security, we should be giving them virtually no money ?? sounds perfect to me when do we start ?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the police did just their job, it would take approximately 100 of them to work NYC, and around 75-80 to work L.A. Pay them what they make now, and imagine the money that is suddenly freed to come back to the taxpayer!

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man in a somewhat organized society. When you wake up, you discover that the entire government bureaucracy has disappeared overnight. You neighbors or others have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new facility they feel they need to maximize the return of their property. When you object, the neighbors and the posse they can afford to pay and arm reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoot you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for bad understanding of ACism.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's right, this could never happen, because everyone respects property in AC land...by definition (otherwise it's not AC, duh).

Re: statism day one
 

Wake up and realize life in these United States is not like that. I woke up and spent time in my pool, went to a lovely farmer's market, read the newspaper, which was extremely critical of the government, and browsed on the internet, looking at whatever cites my heart desired.

Re: statism day one
 

Woke up and this happened:

life savings lol.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man in a somewhat organized society. When you wake up, you discover that the entire government bureaucracy has disappeared overnight. You neighbors or others have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new facility they feel they need to maximize the return of their property. When you object, the neighbors and the posse they can afford to pay and arm reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoot you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL IRONYAMENTS.

This is basically the exact post that I was mocking with the OP.

Re: statism day one
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You go to sleep a free man in a somewhat organized society. When you wake up, you discover that the entire government bureaucracy has disappeared overnight. You neighbors or others have sent a bulldozer over to level your house in order to make way for a new facility they feel they need to maximize the return of their property. When you object, the neighbors and the posse they can afford to pay and arm reminds you that you've tacitly consented to this treatment by virtue of your presence, and then shoot you in the head.

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]
Quoted for bad understanding of ACism.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh that's right, this could never happen, because everyone respects property in AC land...by definition (otherwise it's not AC, duh).

[/ QUOTE ]
Not everybody is needed. Either way that wasn't the point I was making. But feel free the flame away.