100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

5 handed. Villain is Yosh Nakano who is good and solid, however he is losing quite a bit this session and seems a bit frustrated. The game has substantial action and quite a few "creative" holdings have seen showdown.

2 limps, I complete 543 in the small blind, Yosh raises in big blind, call call call

draw 2, yosh is pat, 3, 3

I check, yosh bets, call call, I see I have caught a 6 and call, call call, I draw 1, pat, 2, 2

I check, yosh bets, call call

Do I draw to 6543 here? Should I have even drawn to it on the previous round?

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

Am I wrong in assuming this would be like "should I draw to 2368 in duece" here?

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

I would gladly draw to 8632 here but during this hand I really had this stomach churning feeling when I picked up the 6 that there was a good chance I was drawing dead.

The thing here is that it makes no sense for Yosh to pat a 7 here no matter how bad because he knows that everyone's hand is mediocre/horrible so he is better off just drawing because making a straight is not a concern in this game and I would be fairly surprised if his 6 draw is not a bigger favorite over the field than a pat 7. Or at least I think so. I had never played this game before and although I think I figured it out fairly well I also think whatever I ended up doing in this hand was wrong and I was very unhappy with my play.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

Id continue, but with a sick feeling in my stomach.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

I'd fold, Aces and deuces are going to be totally dead, so you are drawing at 76 and probably have like 2 outs. Close to a fold after the first draw but its cheap and closing the action so I guess its cool.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

I'd probably drop. I don't like my situation; I don't like my position,; I don't like my draw and I can't see anything getting better if I hit my hand. Hell, it might even be worse. Up front in TD against multiple opponents I usually (read always) draw to the nuts.

jmo

PS: Is that mixed game at the Bike still going?

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

by still going do you mean does it still go sometimes or do you mean is it still going at this very moment? because yes it goes as this is where this hand was played and I have no idea if the game is going still because I quit at about 11am or noon after starting the game at 10 or so last night.

the first two times I played it started at 60 and we bumped to 80 but last night we started 3 handed at 80 and bumped to 1/2 while my eyes filled with tears of sorrow that I had to object to playing much much higher

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold, Aces and deuces are going to be totally dead, so you are drawing at 76 and probably have like 2 outs. Close to a fold after the first draw but its cheap and closing the action so I guess its cool.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with DD here.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

6543? Sounds like a classic example of "the only thing worse than missing your draw is hitting it." I am not sure there is any card other than an ace that would make me happy on the first draw.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

Oh by the way, I think when it goes 1, pat, 2, 2 you should strongly consider checkraising the field and snowing here. It's so strong, and you have the perfect hand that really can't continue so if Yosh 3 bets you can just fold. I haven't played draw with Yosh but most live players will give a TON of respect to this play, and it sounds like the cards are pretty dead so the other guys brick out a ton.

Finally, if Yosh folds you could then decide to draw one and tilt the hell out of him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

^^Awesome^^

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh by the way, I think when it goes 1, pat, 2, 2 you should strongly consider checkraising the field and snowing here. It's so strong, and you have the perfect hand that really can't continue so if Yosh 3 bets you can just fold. I haven't played draw with Yosh but most live players will give a TON of respect to this play, and it sounds like the cards are pretty dead so the other guys brick out a ton.

Finally, if Yosh folds you could then decide to draw one and tilt the hell out of him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont get it... If we are so worried about drawing dead why would we snow? Seems like a huge waste of 400 here (read:mega spew). Hes going to have to 3 bet a wide range to close out the field. This is the sort of play that works out every once in awhile and you look like a genius, while the other 10 attempts failed miserbly.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

I hate the idea of trying to snow here as well but I will say that I'm pretty sure Yosh folded a winning 6 earlier in the night in a pot where I maybe mildly overplayed a bad 6 against someone else vastly overplaying the worst 6 so it's not out of the question that this play will work.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

IWTB: first, I never said we were drawing dead (meaning Yosh has a monster) I said we didn't have any outs cuz they are in everyone's hand. I mean we haven't seen an ace or two, and its a 4 way pot, surely not everyone is on the 3456 draw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So it can be very possible that we have too weak of a draw to continue, and at the same time Yosh has a mediocre big blind holding that he's pat with that can't stand much heat. I know every time I'm the big blind and pick up a weak, made, unbreakable hand I get a bit of dread as I raise and announce pat. Now add to that the fact that live players actually believe you and snow less often than online players, and this is looking like a good spot IMO.

The fact that you say he will 3 bet a wide range of hands to close out the field tells me you don't have a good pulse on live players (I know you played live a lot this summer, maybe you were playing high enough stakes where guys do this sort of thing?) - just because its correct for Yosh to do what you suggest doesn't make me think he's very likely to do it, he's more likely to call down or fold. I completely agree with you that he should 3 bet before he should call in most cases but I don't think that's what actually happens.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
IWTB: first, I never said we were drawing dead (meaning Yosh has a monster) I said we didn't have any outs cuz they are in everyone's hand. I mean we haven't seen an ace or two, and its a 4 way pot, surely not everyone is on the 3456 draw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

So it can be very possible that we have too weak of a draw to continue, and at the same time Yosh has a mediocre big blind holding that he's pat with that can't stand much heat. I know every time I'm the big blind and pick up a weak, made, unbreakable hand I get a bit of dread as I raise and announce pat. Now add to that the fact that live players actually believe you and snow less often than online players, and this is looking like a good spot IMO.

The fact that you say he will 3 bet a wide range of hands to close out the field tells me you don't have a good pulse on live players (I know you played live a lot this summer, maybe you were playing high enough stakes where guys do this sort of thing?) - just because its correct for Yosh to do what you suggest doesn't make me think he's very likely to do it, he's more likely to call down or fold. I completely agree with you that he should 3 bet before he should call in most cases but I don't think that's what actually happens.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

DD, your explination makes a lot of sense. I still think its going to be pretty tough to get the chips this way but I now see the merit to your play.
I didnt play much bigger than 1-2 this summer but I still felt most of the players would make the 3 bet here if they had anything worth showing down. Maybe im mistaken, my results this summer were def pretty average. This guys name is familar but I dont know where I know it from??

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd fold, Aces and deuces are going to be totally dead, so you are drawing at 76 and probably have like 2 outs. Close to a fold after the first draw but its cheap and closing the action so I guess its cool.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

word.

Remember that hand weighting is different in A-5, the strongest equivelent hands in 2-7 doesn't feel as strong in A-5. You often have to have a "draw to the nuts" POV more in A-5 than you do in 2-7.

Re: 100/200 Ace to Five easy \"I never play this game\" spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
IWTB: first, I never said we were drawing dead (meaning Yosh has a monster) I said we didn't have any outs cuz they are in everyone's hand. I mean we haven't seen an ace or two, and its a 4 way pot, surely not everyone is on the 3456 draw [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

double word. Donkey is on fire!