(NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

Villain is 22/17.5/3/630 and solid. We are sitting at two tables together and obviously clashed a few times but nothing in particular that could be important for this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Button ($683.30)</font>
SB ($445.70)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($99.70)</font>
Hero ($703.45)
MP ($408)
CO ($374)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $48</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $99.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $151.4</font>, Button calls $103.40.

Flop: ($404.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Hero ???

How do you play the hand from here on?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

I wouldn't be looking to fold. I think a check/shove would be ok here, I don't know how likely it is villain will stack off with QQ if you bet the flop, but if he called pf then again you never know.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

bet and see what he does. why check

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

155, shove all turns.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to elaborate?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with that? It's not like we're giving villain odds to set mine or anything. Or do you think it looks too strong? I think it's fine.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

in addition, it balances that you make that minraise with hands like AJ, KQ etc.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
in addition, it balances that you make that minraise with hands like AJ, KQ etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

hope this wasn't serious

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

it was blah blah im terrible.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

meh no that is fine jfish... just not when its cold 4bet here obviously with those hands, but if it were squeeze shoved by a shortstack then it would be ok

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

ya i just dont care to argue with people. its obv not terrible.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

no I just mean it never happens so isn't really necessary.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

definitely happens enough that you might have to balance vs certain regs.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

I think this is an easy bet on all streets (only slow down on ace turn/river), hopefully leaving you with a pot sized shove on the river. trying to make a huge laydown here is pretty ridiculous IMO. If he has aces then you got coolered, but you'll make more money shoving with KK even if you run into AA here and there than you will trying to make hero laydowns. anyone disagree?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

bet and fold to resistance, around 200 should be enough

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

No folding.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with that? It's not like we're giving villain odds to set mine or anything. Or do you think it looks too strong? I think it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that bad if hero min4bets all hands in his 4betting range like this, but i have a feeling that this is not the case.Usually min4bet = KK or AA and our hand is kinda face up.And we do give villain the odds to set mine, he is calling 50 more for 700 hero's possible stack.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
bet and fold to resistance, around 200 should be enough

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree w/ the 200 part...

don't ever fold this. Push every turn. This is such a perfect board for you.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with that? It's not like we're giving villain odds to set mine or anything. Or do you think it looks too strong? I think it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that bad if hero min4bets all hands in his 4betting range like this, but i have a feeling that this is not the case.Usually min4bet = KK or AA and our hand is kinda face up.And we do give villain the odds to set mine, he is calling 100 more for 700 hero's possible stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

I don't think this is a profitable call if he's playing purely for set value.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

I must be missing something.151.4-99.7 = 51.7

Where did you get the 100 figure?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
No folding.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFE.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB raises to $99.7, Hero raises to $151.4

???

[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with that? It's not like we're giving villain odds to set mine or anything. Or do you think it looks too strong? I think it's fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that bad if hero min4bets all hands in his 4betting range like this, but i have a feeling that this is not the case.Usually min4bet = KK or AA and our hand is kinda face up.And we do give villain the odds to set mine, he is calling 50 more for 700 hero's possible stack.

[/ QUOTE ]
Read the hand again, villain needs to call $100.

He's kind of on the border for set mining odds, but definitely on the -EV sides. $100 into a $300 pot, plus $550 for Hero's stack. So 8.5:1 maximum, but his set equity goes down a little bit in the $300 main pot because of the SS's hand.

I think that jfish's line is the best, $155/shove all turns.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]

<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $48</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $99.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $151.4</font>, Button calls $103.40.



[/ QUOTE ]

sorry to be such a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I must be missing something.151.4-99.7 = 51.7

Where did you get the 100 figure?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero PFRs UTG, villain 3bets OTB to $50, BB shortie min4bets all-in to $100, Hero min5bets to $150, villain (BTN) calls $100.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I must be missing something.151.4-99.7 = 51.7

Where did you get the 100 figure?

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero PFRs UTG, villain 3bets OTB to $50, BB shortie min4bets all-in to $100, Hero min5bets to $150, villain (BTN) calls $100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, i misread the action.Still prefer to isolate him with a bigger reraise being OOP and just stay with the allin guy.Would make it 185-200 or so.

The problem in pots like this is he won't give you a lot of action with hands you crush, because the other guy is allin and you aren't bluffing in majority of the cases.And this size of a reraise might induce JJ-QQ and AK to shove.

Mini4bet looks exactly like a monster.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

Thanks for all the replies so far.

To summarize:

Pre-Flop there was a 5-bet which villain called with another player being already all-in.

Flop:
Main Pot: $300
Side Pot: $104
Stacks : $530

The majority opinion is to bet and get it in now or on the turn.

Do I also play for stacks if my hand were JJ/TT?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($683.30)
SB ($445.70)
BB ($99.70)
Hero ($703.45)
MP ($408)
CO ($374)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $48</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $99.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $151.4</font>, Button calls $103.40.

Flop: ($404.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, Button calls $200.

Turn: ($804.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Everyone agrees to get in here with KK.
What is the worst hand you push here?

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($683.30)
SB ($445.70)
BB ($99.70)
Hero ($703.45)
MP ($408)
CO ($374)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $48</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $99.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $151.4</font>, Button calls $103.40.

Flop: ($404.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, Button calls $200.

Turn: ($804.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Everyone agrees to get in here with KK.
What is the worst hand you push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

KK, cfolding QQ

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Everyone agrees to get in here with KK.
What is the worst hand you push here?

[/ QUOTE ]

KK, cfolding QQ

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't go broke here with QQ or less why should a thinking villain go broke here with QQ or less? Therefore I assumed his range is AA/KK for the most part. I check folded the turn. Is my reasoning flawed?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($683.30)
SB ($445.70)
BB ($99.70)
Hero ($703.45)
MP ($408)
CO ($374)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $48</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $99.7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $151.4</font>, Button calls $103.40.

Flop: ($404.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $200</font>, Button calls $200.

Turn: ($804.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $331.9 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

push turn man.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

i push with JJ+.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

i think it pretty close. a lot here seem to ignore that bluffing a side pot makes not much sense and the ranges of both players should be much tighter than as usual.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

TBH I see people at MSNL (even solid regs) incorrectly bluff or semi-bluff into empty side pots shockingly often.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

Even though QQ is in his range, he's going to show up with KK/AA here 95% of the time.

Re: (NL400) KK in 5-Bet Pot (3-way,175BB deep)
 

Results:

Button had AA. BB had AQ.
The poker gods mock me by putting a K on the river.