you guys are ugly
 

but that doesn't stop me from asking you about this hand.

assume super standard hu opponent thinking and 2+2 but nothing crazy and assume my image tighter than normal but still ae [censored] jones

Poker Stars, $5/$10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $4,428
SB: $1,114.50

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
<font color="red">SB raises to $30</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $111</font>, SB calls $81

Flop: ($222) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, SB checks

Turn: ($222) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $175</font>, SB calls $175

River: ($572) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)

Re: you guys are ugly
 

more than 800 but less than 900 on the river left effective

Re: you guys are ugly
 

you have 2 pair in a RR pot, bet like 340?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

335 fold

Re: you guys are ugly
 

I probably b/f $400.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

standard for me is b/f 375 but if hes crazy i could see bet call

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Seems like he probably has diamonds/Kx/PP of QQ-. You are more likely to get value from a c/r then you are from extracting from a straight up value bet.

And I'm not folding this hand regardless of the way the river action goes down.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

c/r is gross, what is he calling with that is worse? I guess if ur gonna check than its a c/c, but i prefer betting like 375

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Who said I was c/r'ng to get called?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

390 fold

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who said I was c/r'ng to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

wow man, lol at the idea of c/r bluffing here (which is what you are trying to do if you aren't trying to get called...)

just bet 400, fold shove

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Did you ever think that maybe......he was bluffing.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who said I was c/r'ng to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl

Can we get a new 2p2 "trendy" them please?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you ever think that maybe......he was bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So whenever you think someone is bluffing you shove on them so they will fold?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Who said I was c/r'ng to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

you are,

[ QUOTE ]
You are more likely to get value from a c/r then you are from extracting from a straight up value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

moron

Re: you guys are ugly
 

AE, I think you have to value bet vs A8 or w/e and fold to a shove that called w/ the draw on turn.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you ever think that maybe......he was bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're checkraising to get him to fold a hand you already were beating, and call/shove with better. Awesome.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
390 fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Wow with all the hate...

Nutsflopper,

STFU.

All,

I don't see why it is so far fetched that if we bet the river, he may fold but if we check the river, he may bluff or bet with an inferior hand. Thus, we gain no value on a bet but do on a c/r. I am not trying to make a better hand fold. I am trying to make a worse hand bet.

Just to add--I don't find myself calling people names on these boards if/when I don't agree with your opinions. And I don't agree with many of you quite often. Extend the same courtesy please.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

but WHY arent u c/c instead of c/r?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow with all the hate...

Nutsflopper,

STFU.

All,

I don't see why it is so far fetched that if we bet the river, he may fold but if we check the river, he may bluff or bet with an inferior hand. Thus, we gain no value on a bet but do on a c/r. I am not trying to make a better hand fold. I am trying to make a worse hand bet.

Just to add--I don't find myself calling people names on these boards if/when I don't agree with your opinions. And I don't agree with many of you quite often. Extend the same courtesy please.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you're not raising to get called and you don't think he'll fold better, then it's a bad raise.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Ships line doesn't look very strong. Why wouldn't Ax value bet that river if checked to? Given stacks, if he bets ~$400, he will probably feel tied to the pot if raised and he has anything playable. The pot would be ~$1700 and it would cost him ~$400 more to call. If you had AJ in his situation, would you call the c/r getting those odds?

The times that he has missed diamonds, he folds to our c/r....so be it.
The times he has a better hand then us, we loses 110BB...so be it. I think we are ahead more often then not here so I am willing to take the risk of being stacked sometime.

c/c has merit as well. But when he does have a hand of value, a c/r gets his whole stack where a c/c doesn't.

Anything seems better then b/f as far as I'm concerned.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow with all the hate...

Nutsflopper,

STFU.

All,

I don't see why it is so far fetched that if we bet the river, he may fold but if we check the river, he may bluff or bet with an inferior hand. Thus, we gain no value on a bet but do on a c/r. I am not trying to make a better hand fold. I am trying to make a worse hand bet.

Just to add--I don't find myself calling people names on these boards if/when I don't agree with your opinions. And I don't agree with many of you quite often. Extend the same courtesy please.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's a button right next to raise that was made for spots like you're describing

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow with all the hate...

Nutsflopper,

STFU.

All,

I don't see why it is so far fetched that if we bet the river, he may fold but if we check the river, he may bluff or bet with an inferior hand. Thus, we gain no value on a bet but do on a c/r. I am not trying to make a better hand fold. I am trying to make a worse hand bet.

Just to add--I don't find myself calling people names on these boards if/when I don't agree with your opinions. And I don't agree with many of you quite often. Extend the same courtesy please.

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r gains little to no value against a competent opponent here, your putting in money that hes only gonna call if your behind. c/c seems fine, but personally id bet 425/fold.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

Lets assume you are his opponent and have AJ/AT/A9. Come river, if checked to, are you betting for value? If so, are you calling a shove getting greater then 4-1?

edit to add- Slappz, you do realize that you will be offered greater then 4-1 on the line you choose to fold, right?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

i dont really know what responses u expected to get other than bet/fold

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
i dont really know what responses u expected to get other than bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r obv

Re: you guys are ugly
 

shove to represent the flush.

bet -&gt; fold is the standard line here, although i think check -&gt; calling every so often isn't that bad either.

i think check-raising here is gross.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

tbh i don't like checking to do anything but fold. obviously check raising is gross, and when he bets the river you're not even that far ahead of his range that i think it's better to c/f than it is to c/c

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
tbh i don't like checking to do anything but fold. obviously check raising is gross, and when he bets the river you're not even that far ahead of his range that i think it's better to c/f than it is to c/c

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, but his line is so weak that if you check river, i think an ace bets it for value, or he might bluff at it. i don't want to get allin, but i'd want to get like $350-$400 on this river. whether you bet or he does is irrelevant. plus i think check/calling here is a good image play as it might make him more hesitant to bluff later on, getting you more cheaper showdowns with marginal hands

Re: you guys are ugly
 

shove

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
tbh i don't like checking to do anything but fold. obviously check raising is gross, and when he bets the river you're not even that far ahead of his range that i think it's better to c/f than it is to c/c

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: you guys are ugly
 

check/fold

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
check/fold

[/ QUOTE ]
this is so far beyond weak. with this line its completely plausible that hed v bet an ace or something and were folding the best hand. Eventhough ud expect someone to check an ace people do v bet this thin sometimes. u have 2 pair in a HU pot, c/f? seriously?

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
check/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

this is certainly better than check calling, and *probably better than bet calling vs this guy, but i think it's not as good as bet folding.

i just hate stacks, i ahve to bet like 375 into 550 and fold to a shove getting 4 to 1?

bleh, i guesss i'm the only one sick enough to bluff there so i should just bet to get called by specifically AJ AT types

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont really know what responses u expected to get other than bet/fold

[/ QUOTE ]

c/r obv

[/ QUOTE ]

lol



ok imo b/f &gt; c/c &gt;&gt; b/c &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; c/r

Re: you guys are ugly
 

fwiw, i think check call is BY FAR the worst

i think check call might be worse than CR

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, i think check call is BY FAR the worst

i think check call might be worse than CR

[/ QUOTE ]

dunno about it being worse that c/r but it is pretty bad, and is definitely worse than b/c b/f of c/f

Re: you guys are ugly
 

bet 425. Call shove.

Re: you guys are ugly
 

[ QUOTE ]
shove to represent the flush.

bet -&gt; fold is the standard line here, although i think check -&gt; calling every so often isn't that bad either.

i think check-raising here is gross.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh snap your chat is banned? LOL I chatted you up and felt hurt when you didn't reply. Haha gg.