Rate my play
 

Two hands. Very similar

60-120

UTG limps(crazy asian Lag. He has told me he fears my game. Not sure if he was serious), UTG+1 limps, I raise AKs, everyone clears out, limpers call

Flop:
K55

Both check, I bet, UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, I 3 bet, UTG calls.

Turn:

8 completing the rainbow

UTG checks and holds his chips out like he is going to call my bet, I check

River:
J

UTG bets, I call

Hand 2:
40-80

I raise As9s in middle position, Button calls, Sb 3 bets(this guy is probably pissed off at me. On his kill pot, I raised AQ, he 3 bets, I flop an Ace and he check-called me down), I call, button calls

Flop:

A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Sb bets, I call, button folds.

Turn:
7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Sb bets, I call

River:

2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Sb checks, I check

Re: Rate my play
 

scenario 1... BET, BET, BET... I hate when people use the reverse tell / pre-loaded chip trick on the turn and it works. I don't think there is any way he has you beat or is holding a 5.

scenario 2... I like... I think a lot of folks might argue a SUPER thin value bet on the river, but I hate VB'ing myself in these situations and having the guy turn over A-10

Re: Rate my play
 

scenario 1 i bet the turn

scenario 2 i check behind the river

Re: Rate my play
 

[ QUOTE ]
scenario 1... BET, BET, BET... I hate when people use the reverse tell / pre-loaded chip trick on the turn and it works. I don't think there is any way he has you beat or is holding a 5.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was 85% certain my hand was good when I checked

Re: Rate my play
 

I like both.
I think you induced a bluff on hand 1 and he was folding the turn. A free card is not dangerous here. The odds of him getting a winner are long indeed, most likely he's drawing dead.
On hand 2, I can hardly imagine a hand calling you that does not have you beat. (Any better Ace is still better and almost every Ace-rag improved to Aces up. I think he is either afraid of a flush but can beat most everything else and will call, or is (incorrectly) trying to induce a bluff.

Re: Rate my play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
scenario 1... BET, BET, BET... I hate when people use the reverse tell / pre-loaded chip trick on the turn and it works. I don't think there is any way he has you beat or is holding a 5.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was 85% certain my hand was good when I checked

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet anyways. Lots of players use the "i'm gonna call you" telegraph to try and stop a bluff, but most of them don't have the discipline to fold when you bet anyways. Bet turn, bet river, and get paid.

As played, I might raise the river.

Scenario 2, I think I'd find a value bet here.

Re: Rate my play
 

So you know the getting chips ready to call means weak, so why did you check? Were you trying to go a level above him, he knows he is showing weakness, and you checking means you are even weaker than expected, which gets him to bluff?

I would really like your thinking on hand 1, as it is player dependent. Is this the type who can show weakness by intimidating with calling chips, and then pulls off a check raise??? (I have never seen this personally, but am sure it exists...)

Re: Rate my play
 

Longtime lurker, thought I'd finally start posting some.

Hand 1: He made a shutout raise on the flop, so I'm not too worried about a 5, but if you're not going to bet the turn after you 3-bet, why not just let him lead turn and river?

Hand 2: Looks like a value bet to me, but I guess it's live poker so I don't fault a check.

-KPR

Re: Rate my play
 

Brandon--

I think you're too likely to get two bets from a worse hand to check the turn on hand 1. Given that you got to the river the way you did, I'd consider raising.

I like hand 2, especially under standard conditions in the brown-chip CAZ games.

--Nate

Re: Rate my play
 

in hand 1, you open a major can of worms vs. this kind of opponent by 3betting the flop.

Re: Rate my play
 

Hand #1 Id never 3 bet the flop. Id either wait until the turn or river or not raise at all. If he'd always slow play a 5 and fastplay a K like most players will, then waiting until the turn is best. If he'll bluff sometimes, then waiting until the river is the play. Generally I'd just raise the turn though.

On the turn, I take the holding out chips move to be a sign that he's either in call down mode or trying to get a cheap sd. Easy bet.

hand #2: I think you have the best hand almost always, but he's probably folding most of the stuff you beat anyway, so theres little value. I'd still bet though because you get a crying call from QQ more than he shows up with a better A.

Re: Rate my play
 

wow he owned you so bad with the classic "i'm holding my chips in my hand getting ready to call because i don't want you to bet because you have a better hand than me so maybe i'll scare you into checking even though i am calling you down no matter what."

Re: Rate my play
 

Hand 1 - You have to bet the turn or raise the river - holding chips out screams weak king. If they have KJ, the cant reraise so you are fine.
Hand 2 - I think you have to call the turn and fold any unimproved river. Too many times, 2 pair is the most likely hand and you have odds to call.

Re: Rate my play
 

How crazy is this guy. If he is the type who will bluff raise or make thin raises then give him the chance...bet the turn. Obviously at no point will you lay this down.

If he is the typical lag I would just call the check-raise and let him keep the lead in the betting. You have position so you can make sure that a bet goes in each round. If he is the type who will pay of a raise on the river with something you beat then do it. If he is more likely to turbo muck because he never had anything but could three bet you if he had the five then check.

Re: Rate my play
 

#1 def bet turn..

#2 doesnt anyone wanna raise the flop or turn or am i retarded??? kthx

Re: Rate my play
 

Lets say that on the flop the villains decide to turn their hands face up.

villain in hand 1: 33

Villain in hand 2: 22

Should I of played the hands differently?

Re: Rate my play
 

my rating on a pass/fail basis:

hand 1: FAIL. those "i'm calling you" moves in my experience actually result in you getting called. bet.

hand 2: PASS. too thin for vb here as i think he folds all big pairs he gets there with and will call w/ the AJs etc.

Barron

Re: Rate my play
 

Hand 1: I bet the turn. Holding out calling chips is almost always a reliable 'I'm weak' tell. If it's the crazy asian lag who I think it might be: I've seen him hold out calling chips and then fold to a bet so you might've made more your way .


Hand 2: Standard for me.

Re: Rate my play
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I bet the turn. Holding out calling chips is almost always a reliable 'I'm weak' tell. If it's the crazy asian lag who I think it might be: I've seen him hold out calling chips and then fold to a bet so you might've made more your way .


[/ QUOTE ]

It was LH. I don't think he was calling my bet

Re: Rate my play
 

Brandon--

Let me paraphrase:

"Here's a hand that seems like an obvious bet, but I'm going to include a live tell that makes it an even clearer bet. RESULTS: it happened to be a guy for whom the tell means something else."

Perhaps this was not the best hand to post.

That said, I'd like to see you post more.

--Nate

Re: Rate my play
 

[ QUOTE ]
Brandon--

Let me paraphrase:

"Here's a hand that seems like an obvious bet, but I'm going to include a live tell that makes it an even clearer bet. RESULTS: it happened to be a guy for whom the tell means something else."

Perhaps this was not the best hand to post.

That said, I'd like to see you post more.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it wasn't the best hand to post. Here was my thought process

1. He could have a 5 but its highly unlikely
2. If he has a pocket pair or a worse king is drawing very slim
3. If I bet he folds
4. If I check the turn he auto bets the river every time.

He shows me 33 on the river and I think I like the way I played the hand. Not real sure on the math of giving a free card vs picking up an extra bet.

Haven't anything worth posting in quite some time. Been killing the games and taking nasty beats with aces in huge pots.

Re: Rate my play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Brandon--

Let me paraphrase:

"Here's a hand that seems like an obvious bet, but I'm going to include a live tell that makes it an even clearer bet. RESULTS: it happened to be a guy for whom the tell means something else."

Perhaps this was not the best hand to post.

That said, I'd like to see you post more.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it wasn't the best hand to post. Here was my thought process

1. He could have a 5 but its highly unlikely
2. If he has a pocket pair or a worse king is drawing very slim
3. If I bet he folds
4. If I check the turn he auto bets the river every time.

He shows me 33 on the river and I think I like the way I played the hand. Not real sure on the math of giving a free card vs picking up an extra bet.

Haven't anything worth posting in quite some time. Been killing the games and taking nasty beats with aces in huge pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brandon--

If he would indeed fold to a bet, then I think your play is uncontroversially correct. I haven't put pencil to paper, but I'd be shocked if giving a free card would hurt you enough to make you prefer the fold to the extra bet. Like you said, he rarely has more than two or three outs.

As far as killing the games and losing with aces in big pots... you're making me nostalgic for CAZ.

All my best,

--Nate