On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Some may know that Southwest Airlines recently changed its boarding policy to disallow families with small children from preboarding. These families, if they don't have an 'A' pass, now board after the 'A' group. If all members have 'A' boarding passes, they board right in the crunch with the business flyers and non-breeders.

My family recently completed a four-leg trip on Southwest. My vent on their blog regarding the change follows:

I posted earlier that I would withhold judgment on this program until we finished our trip (wife, 4 year-old, lap baby, and myself). The trip is over, and I do not like this program. It seems clear to me this policy is a way to segregate families to the back of the plane. When we preboarded in the past, we sat up front by the bulkhead. This prevented another passenger’s seat from being kicked or otherwise disturbed by the preschooler. Try as we might, we cannot always prevent this from happening over five hours of flight time, so on this trip SWA had multiple unhappy passengers: Us, and those who had to sit in front of our 4 year-old.Good luck with your family-segregation-ghetto policy, Southwest. We will not fly this airline again.


Have any other posters with young'uns flown Southwest since this new policy was implemented? What did you think?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

For the other side of the coin, it has always annoyed me when I get to the airport 2 hours early w/ my "A" voucher, sit patiently (generally uncomfortably) @ the front of the "A" line for 2 hours, only to watch half the plane "pre-board" (oxymoron, no ?) w/ various conditions, situations and maladies, both real and imagined......

Not looking to start a flame war..... I just don't think that having children is the "golden ticket" to better seating..... The policy is essentially a first-come, first serve policy. If you want to board in advance, get to the airport early. (I realize you have vowed not to take SWA again.... more just a general statement for those who will)

IMO, if you live near a JetBlue destination, they are the best no frills airline, w/ nice leather seats, your own seatback TV, affordable fares, and assigned seating.... give 'em a try !!!

peace, mondo

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

The policy is 1st come, 1st served and was changed based on feedback. I never liked seeing families seated at the front because they usually take longer to disembark, which drives me nuts when I just want to grab my carry-on and get out of dodge. Sorry to disagree with you here bro.

Note: I have been flying Southwest with my kids since they were 2 and 6 years of age and we never pre-boarded.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I just want my airline personnel to wear long pants and not crack jokes when they're telling me about the emergency exits. That's why Southwest concerns me. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I don't mind the joke cracking as long as the person cracking jokes is actually funny. I've only heard one emergency spiel joke-teller who was actually funny.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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We will not fly this airline again.

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If you aren't going to fly Southwest again, why do you care?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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We will not fly this airline again.

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If you aren't going to fly Southwest again, why do you care?

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OT, this is a bit silly. I think he has every right to care, especially if he is posting in The Lounge and trying to elicit some discussion.

This doesn't really affect me at all because I'm 22 with no kids. I see Chip and mondo's sides pretty well. I think that I lean toward mondo's feeling, mostly because of the people who *use* a kid as an excuse to board the plane first and sit in front. I just assume that, in general, they aren't doing that out of the kindness of their heart, like Chip indicated as his reason (I believe you, obv).

I have only flown a few times, but I can safely say that I would get annoyed by a kid kicking my seat. I'm a pretty patient and tolerant person, but flights are boring enough without some kid kicking my seat.

Or, for that matter, some idiotic girl doing something idiotic. That was my personal bad experience. Stupid 25 year old obnoxious boozehound.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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We will not fly this airline again.

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If you aren't going to fly Southwest again, why do you care?

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That was a quote from my comment on their blog post. Just giving the airline some feedback on their policy.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I have a better solution.

Let families pre-board. If a kid screams, cries, or kicks a seat, they are barred from flying for the rest of their lives.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Looking over the comments on SWA's blog, the average per post is about a dozen. Comments on the post regarding this policy change is currently 430. Obviously this is a hot-button issue for them.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

The interesting thing about Southwest as a company is that they don't try to be everything to everyone. They are the only airline that really attempts to limit overweight passengers and make them buy two seats if they can't fit. I would assume most people on that borderline fly another airline. Not incidentally it also is one of many reasons I enjoy flying Southwest.

Now, flying with small children isn't the same thing as being fat, but having those people at the front of the plane does increase the disembarking time and makes others wait longer to get off the plane. Not having small kids myself this policy is another small reason I would prefer to fly Southwest. They are obviously reckoning that more of us will choose to fly because we like the policy than the number of families that will use another airline. I never counted this as a huge issue for me, but there are enough airlines to cater to different needs and I hardly think this policy is an outrage. You can just book yourself on United or something and book early so you get a seat that works well for your situation.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

From another blog comment:

Will SWA survive as a follow your own drummer company focused on making travel more convenient for the traveler or succumb to corporate and union bureaucracy overload? Unfortunately the courtesy and helpfulness level at counters and in cabins throughout the system would indicate the later.

Oh and incase those of you in senior management don’t have young children or don’t follow the normal boarding procedure. Children boarding first was implemented by the founder Rollin W. King and his wife who had an 8 and a 10 year old. They knew what a challenge it is to travel with children.

SWA is lucky to have those parents stamping the SWA brand into their children’s brains at such an early age; those children will be future SWA adult customers and won’t even know why. Changing this policy is a fool’s game and a great example of customer disservice in the name of efficiency.

This is a great example of a VP who doesn’t have enough to do or doesn’t understand what made SWA successful.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I don't really know what's going on here, but anything that segregates the kids and parents away from the normal people and/or stops them getting special treatment they have no right to, is a good thing imo.

The point about kicking quoted in your OP is a perfect example of stupid parents who don't think. One kid getting the front of the plane isn't going to make a difference to the kick ratio - but shuffling them to the back of the plane will definitely make a difference to the annoyance ratio experienced by normal people.

I say bravo.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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special treatment they have no right to

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normal people.


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I don't believe the issue is about 'rights', it's merely the abolition of a courtesy the airline had extended to families who have a lot of baggage to handle (literally) when flying. We will vote with our feet and fly another airline where we will pick the assigned seats that will work best for us.


'Normal people'?

I think this phrase is indicative of the breeder hate engendered by the gay and lesbian political movement, that seems to have permeated management at SWA.
What the hell is abnormal about having a family?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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The policy is 1st come, 1st served and was changed based on feedback. I never liked seeing families seated at the front because they usually take longer to disembark, which drives me nuts when I just want to grab my carry-on and get out of dodge. Sorry to disagree with you here bro.

Note: I have been flying Southwest with my kids since they were 2 and 6 years of age and we never pre-boarded.

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And on the other side - making families board with everyone else creates a giant bottleneck when mom or dad is trying to install a carseat and holds up everyone behind them.

Pre-boarding is essential for families with kids still in "restraint seats", because of install times, but should not happen for families with children large enough to sit in the regular seat.

Also, mondo: griping about handicapped people pre-boarding - GFY.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Chip,

I don't get why people are hating on your vent. It's your right to, and no doubt SWA values its customers' feedback.

That said, and having read everyone's comments, I have to say that I like the change. I don't fly much but if the kids in front does slow down the deplaning process for everyone else, then that is a PITA that must annoy the hell out of a frequent traveler.

As for kicking the back of seats being a reason to sit up front, what is that? Control your kids, they shouldn't be kicking the back of seats, period.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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special treatment they have no right to

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normal people.


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I don't believe the issue is about 'rights', it's merely the abolition of a courtesy the airline had extended to families who have a lot of baggage to handle (literally) when flying. We will vote with our feet and fly another airline where we will pick the assigned seats that will work best for us.


'Normal people'?

I think this phrase is indicative of the breeder hate engendered by the gay and lesbian political movement, that seems to have permeated management at SWA.
What the hell is abnormal about having a family?

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Oh wow, sorry. I just reread your OP...I realized that I called YOU the stupid parent.

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My vent on their blog

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Sorry about that...the comment just struck me as a random asinine parent trying to score cheap points against the airline. You're neither neither random nor asinine so I was wrong on that...apologies. I'm going to post in the "putting your foot in it" thread now. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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As for kicking the back of seats being a reason to sit up front, what is that? Control your kids, they shouldn't be kicking the back of seats, period.

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It's built into little kids. No matter how many times you beat them, they still kick seats.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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I have only flown a few times, but I can safely say that I would get annoyed by a kid kicking my seat. I'm a pretty patient and tolerant person, but flights are boring enough without some kid kicking my seat.

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QFT. Had some kid behind me on an overnight flight this summer, I'd happily have slept the whole thing but the kid obviously couldn't, therefore I couldn't

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

There has to be a middle ground here. Having two small kids myself, its great to be able to get on board early and get the car seats set up. I also am a business traveller occassionally and I totally see the point of getting those people on an off the plane quickly.

Maybe they could create a family section towards the rear of the plane. They could let the families on first, but remind them to sit in the further back rows. I know that this doesnt coincide with the sit-anywhere theory, but at least its a better option than not letting families get on early.

One other consequence of not letting families get on first is that if the flight is full and they are in group C, there's a decent chance that they wouldnt be able to sit together. That is a terrible result as well, especially with small kids. Even if people offer to move around, it will still significantly slow the boarding process and piss people off in the meantime.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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There has to be a middle ground here. Having two small kids myself, its great to be able to get on board early and get the car seats set up. I also am a business traveller occassionally and I totally see the point of getting those people on an off the plane quickly.

Maybe they could create a family section towards the rear of the plane. They could let the families on first, but remind them to sit in the further back rows. I know that this doesnt coincide with the sit-anywhere theory, but at least its a better option than not letting families get on early.

One other consequence of not letting families get on first is that if the flight is full and they are in group C, there's a decent chance that they wouldnt be able to sit together. That is a terrible result as well, especially with small kids. Even if people offer to move around, it will still significantly slow the boarding process and piss people off in the meantime.

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Exactly. The people who are against it aren't thinking it through.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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Chip,

I don't get why people are hating on your vent. It's your right to, and no doubt SWA values its customers' feedback.

That said, and having read everyone's comments, I have to say that I like the change. I don't fly much but if the kids in front does slow down the deplaning process for everyone else, then that is a PITA that must annoy the hell out of a frequent traveler.

As for kicking the back of seats being a reason to sit up front, what is that? Control your kids, they shouldn't be kicking the back of seats, period.

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People who are given power find it hard not to abuse it, even if only passive-aggressively. Like the guy playing poker who waits until it is his turn to play to start telling some long story, freezing the game and holding everyone hostage. It's extremely common for people to purposely slow down when they know they can annoy people doing it. And kids are the perfect excuse, because it's so common to put on a righteous, long-suffering air about them. How could you criticize a mother??? I could see many families making deplaning drag out for ages and ages, and definitely wouldn't want to wait for them.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Chip,

I don't get why people are hating on your vent. It's your right to, and no doubt SWA values its customers' feedback.

That said, and having read everyone's comments, I have to say that I like the change. I don't fly much but if the kids in front does slow down the deplaning process for everyone else, then that is a PITA that must annoy the hell out of a frequent traveler.

As for kicking the back of seats being a reason to sit up front, what is that? Control your kids, they shouldn't be kicking the back of seats, period.

[/ QUOTE ]

People who are given power find it hard not to abuse it, even if only passive-aggressively. Like the guy playing poker who waits until it is his turn to play to start telling some long story, freezing the game and holding everyone hostage. It's extremely common for people to purposely slow down when they know they can annoy people doing it. And kids are the perfect excuse, because it's so common to put on a righteous, long-suffering air about them. How could you criticize a mother??? I could see many families making deplaning drag out for ages and ages, and definitely wouldn't want to wait for them.

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Oooooooookay. But in the world that's not contained entirely in your martyred brain, toddlers in restraint seats take effort to get on and off of a plane.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I don't recall saying I cared, though in "the world contained in your martyred brain," you might have thought I did.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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special treatment they have no right to

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normal people.


[/ QUOTE ]


I don't believe the issue is about 'rights', it's merely the abolition of a courtesy the airline had extended to families who have a lot of baggage to handle (literally) when flying. We will vote with our feet and fly another airline where we will pick the assigned seats that will work best for us.


'Normal people'?

I think this phrase is indicative of the breeder hate engendered by the gay and lesbian political movement, that seems to have permeated management at SWA.
What the hell is abnormal about having a family?

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Oh wow, sorry. I just reread your OP...I realized that I called YOU the stupid parent.

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My vent on their blog

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Sorry about that...the comment just struck me as a random asinine parent trying to score cheap points against the airline. You're neither neither random nor asinine so I was wrong on that...apologies. I'm going to post in the "putting your foot in it" thread now. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

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NP brah.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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And on the other side - making families board with everyone else creates a giant bottleneck when mom or dad is trying to install a carseat and holds up everyone behind them.

Pre-boarding is essential for families with kids still in "restraint seats", because of install times, but should not happen for families with children large enough to sit in the regular seat.

Also, mondo: griping about handicapped people pre-boarding - GFY.

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Nice. When the plane lands I'll stand 8 rows back ready to go while you play with your carseat and luggage for 10 min.

Pre-boarding is fine if you go to the back of the plane.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The policy is 1st come, 1st served and was changed based on feedback. I never liked seeing families seated at the front because they usually take longer to disembark, which drives me nuts when I just want to grab my carry-on and get out of dodge. Sorry to disagree with you here bro.

Note: I have been flying Southwest with my kids since they were 2 and 6 years of age and we never pre-boarded.

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And on the other side - making families board with everyone else creates a giant bottleneck when mom or dad is trying to install a carseat and holds up everyone behind them.



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I'm never in a hurry to get on the plane. Most flights leave late anyway. However, after listening to kids screaming and kicking my seat for 3 hours I want to GTFO of that plane as soon as that seat belt sign goes off.

Sticking all the pre-boarders in the back is the right way to go about it; however, that would require extra SW employees on the plane asking people to move so I can understand why they did not implement it.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Frankly, I wouldn't care about sitting in the back.

However, 'A' groupers will still get to deal with families trying to lug their stuff down the aisle - impossible to avoid hitting someone with something during that process.

And while we didn't use a car seat, it still took us a while to get organized at our seats. Which meant we blocked the aisle during that time.

I started this thread partly to vent, but also to gauge reaction vs. the SWA blog post comments. tl;dr is weighing in much the same, with views on either side.



I've done a lot of business traveling solo as well. I didn't care for screaming babies or getting my seat kicked any more than anyone else would.

I never felt the hate for family fliers that I'm seeing both here and on the SWA blog though. I don't understand it.

There is a growing segment of society that detests children and the people who have them. It's not confined to this airline policy; my daughter and I have been scowled at by angry lesbians on the streets in Berkeley as well.

WTF? Do all these people hate their own parents this much for bringing them into the world?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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I never felt the hate for family fliers that I'm seeing both here and on the SWA blog though. I don't understand it.

There is a growing segment of society that detests children and the people who have them. It's not confined to this airline policy; my daughter and I have been scowled at by angry lesbians on the streets in Berkeley as well.

WTF? Do all these people hate their own parents this much for bringing them into the world?

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I am a family flyer and I never cared for (or used) the old policy. I always viewed it that the issue of flying with kids was mine to deal with, not the airlines or the other passengers problem. Many times on SW flights passengers offered to exchange seats so that my family could sit together (usually near the back). I always made sure that my kids thanked them right there and again after we deplaned.

I've always felt that special boarding privileges should only be given to those who are physically handicapped.

Anyway, I'm not hating on you, I'm just saying that I welcome the policy change. Your feelings are understandable.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Probably it's generally more non-specific, toward anyone who is annoying, disruptive, or selfish. And parents with kids can easily be a combo that exhibits that.

It's probably also that parents seem to be getting more indulgent toward their kids, and less responsible themselves, all the time. It used to be thought of much more poorly to let your kid scream his head off, run up and down aisles during movies and in restaurants, speak in a screaming voice, etc. Now a great many parents don't seem to care to control their kids so as to keep an environment reasonably pleasant for everyone. The results are predictable.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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WTF? Do all these people hate their own parents this much for bringing them into the world?

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Yeah what's up with all the hating on little munchkins? You guys are not very friendly to our parents of young kids!

I hardly ever fly, Chip, because I'm scared out of my mind of flying at 30,000 ft in a metal tube. But I would think that having little kids near me would be a pleasant distraction and take my mind off of the agony of burning to death as I plumment to the ground in a ball of fire. So you can sit near me any time with your family and I will try to make your kids laugh. I think people should have a little more understanding. Little kids are hard to keep quiet for several hours. And having more than one must make it especially difficult. I'm on your side Chip! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Southwest sounds stupid. Are they the ones who keep commenting on what passengers are wearing?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

CW,

When I've flown with my daughter I've generally waited as long as possible before getting on the plane because it gives her a chance to expend energy in the terminal. On Southwest I guess this strategy sucks because you might not be able to sit together. Similarly, due to my daughter's penchant for seat-kicking, I now book two seats together and one in front of HER seat, so that it'll be my seat she kicks. Also not an option on SW, I guess.

In closing, yeah, I don't think I'd fly Southwest with kids.

Blarg,

Your earlier contention that your bitterness is due to OOT/Lounge feuding is contradicted by the fact that this IS the lounge, and your anger seems really misplaced.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

I stated a general opinion and someone responded with a personal attack, and basically called me nuts, which I simply threw back at him for its irony. You're pointing fingers in the wrong direction and very carelessly.

I don't agree with your begging the question, either. Can this please be done somewhere crummier or not at all?

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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There has to be a middle ground here.

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...
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One other consequence of not letting families get on first is that if the flight is full and they are in group C, there's a decent chance that they wouldnt be able to sit together.

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ChipWrecked:
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These families, if they don't have an 'A' pass, now board after the 'A' group.

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Families are still getting preferential treatment, just not most preferred status, a family with C or B is promoted to B+/A-. After the A group, the back of the plane is still wide open.

Southwest seems to have found your middle ground. I applaud their innovation.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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[ QUOTE ]
And on the other side - making families board with everyone else creates a giant bottleneck when mom or dad is trying to install a carseat and holds up everyone behind them.

Pre-boarding is essential for families with kids still in "restraint seats", because of install times, but should not happen for families with children large enough to sit in the regular seat.

Also, mondo: griping about handicapped people pre-boarding - GFY.

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Nice. When the plane lands I'll stand 8 rows back ready to go while you play with your carseat and luggage for 10 min.


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Who said anything about de-planing? I've never once seen a family with a child restraint de-plane in normal fashion. They sit until everyone is off and then leave.

I'm chairman's club on usair two years running, so it's not like I've not been on just one or two flights.

I have however been stuck behind families boarding with normal passengers and had to stand in line for 10-15 minutes while a flustered mom installs two car seats. It tilts everyone and delays takeoff.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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I don't recall saying I cared, though in "the world contained in your martyred brain," you might have thought I did.

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Witty, but I'm not the bi-polar one.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

Hey let's stick to the topic. I don't see why we have to attack each other. Seems uncalled for.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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I don't recall saying I cared, though in "the world contained in your martyred brain," you might have thought I did.

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Witty, but I'm not the bi-polar one.

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Name-calling, unprovoked attacks, and repeatedly calling someone nuts is the kind of quality this forum needs a lot more of. Welcome.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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Name-calling, unprovoked attacks, and repeatedly calling someone nuts is the kind of quality this forum needs a lot more of.

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Agree with Blarg. Stop the name-calling and get back on topic. It's a good thread.

The last time I flew it was to Hawaii. I think it was something like a 9 hour flight. I don't recall any kids or babies acting up or being disruptive. There was a woman who sat across the isle from me who was very mean to the girl in front of her who was trying to recline her seat. They were creating quite the ruckus.

Re: On Southwest Airlines new family boarding policy
 

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There has to be a middle ground here.

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...
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One other consequence of not letting families get on first is that if the flight is full and they are in group C, there's a decent chance that they wouldnt be able to sit together.

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ChipWrecked:
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These families, if they don't have an 'A' pass, now board after the 'A' group.

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Families are still getting preferential treatment, just not most preferred status, a family with C or B is promoted to B+/A-. After the A group, the back of the plane is still wide open.

Southwest seems to have found your middle ground. I applaud their innovation.

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Didnt read that part so closely, did I? Nice catch.

Even though my families cant sit together argument may not hold any longer, it is still a very likely possibility that someone in the A group already on the plane will get hit with a car seat. That's probably a minor inconvenience, but it will happen (I speak from experience both as the one lugging the seat down the aisle and as one who has been hit by a seat before).

Also, cant you get an A board group just by checking in online the day before? That seems to defeat the "I got here first so I should be able to get on first" theory since you can get there right before the A group gets on and still get on in front of families.

I still like my solution of the family area being behind row 15 or something like that and allowing families to board first.