PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Is a douche.

That is all.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

why?

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

After seeing him on PAD and other shows recently (commentating on the Full Tilt equalizer), I cannot believe anyone takes him seriously. His hands shake like a complete newbie when he plays, his grasp of the game seems elementary at best and he seems very defensive and insecure.

I also am astounded people pay money for his books - get SSII, harrington and sklansky - then play. It's cards for crying out loud - not grandmaster level chess.

But IMHO Konik is an even bigger douche.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

"But IMHO Konik is an even bigger douche."

I really enjoy his books. His lastest one "The Smart Money: How the World's Best Sports Bettors Beat The Bookies Out of Millions" was very interesting.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Konik - In regards to poker commentating and playing i meant - i know there has been a boom and lots of undeserving people get swept up (see e.g., clonie gowen) - but its still annoying.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
his grasp of the game seems elementary at best

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree strongly with that.

I don't think a whole lot of Konik's ability, though, especially his willingness to give up tons of ChipEV in order to stay alive.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Just never seen anything that impressed me (either in his commentary or play) - does he play superhigh limits somewhere and win to support himself like a true pro player, does he have some impressive recent wins in big open field tourneys? I mean I am not saying he couldn't be some secret zen master at the game - but, results matter, and even Chad Brown seem way better on that score. Just don't understand where all the love for Phil comes from.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

I saw him on PAD, and I lost any respect I had for him in this one hand where he had A2, made a standard PF raise, and Kaplan called from the BB. The flop was AAK, and Gordon might of made a continuation bet which Kaplan called, or he checked (I forget). The turn was a K, and they both checked. The river was a K, Kaplan bet about 1/4 of the pot, and Gordon hemmed and hawed for a while. "I let you get there with your King, didn't I....yada, yada, yada." He finally did call, but the fact that he did not INSTACALL there (with the stack sizes) was pretty sad. I really thought that he was going to fold.

While thinking, he started talking about how Daniel can make big laydowns like this, and stuff like that. The way he acted while almost folding made it seem like he had no idea what he was doing. The whole sequence was pathetic. Of course, the other players ripped him good for taking so long and almost folding.

Edit: After reading my post, I have to say that I can't say the guy sucks based on one hand, but I just found it mindboggling that a "pro" would hem and haw like he did in this spot. This was one of the only hands of his that I saw during the show.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

lol @ this thread.

Watching Phil Gordon this past week on PAD made me vomit in my mouth like every time. His style or lack of just come across as very douchey. He seems like he is full of himself, I don't know why. His fluffy hairdo and 3 buckteethy smile also angered me.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I saw him on PAD, and I lost any respect I had for him in this one hand where he had A2, made a standard PF raise, and Kaplan called from the BB. The flop was AAK, and Gordon made a continuation bet which Kaplan called. The turn was a K, and they both checked. The river was a K, Kaplan bet about 1/4 of the pot, and Gordon hemmed and hawed for a while. "I let you get there with your King, didn't I....yada, yada, yada." He finally did call, but the fact that he did not INSTACALL there (with the stack sizes) was pretty sad. I really thought that he was going to fold.

While thinking, he started talking about how Daniel can make big laydowns like this, and stuff like that. The way he acted while almost folding made it seem like he had no idea what he was doing. The whole sequence was pathetic. Of course, the other players ripped him good for taking so long and almost folding.

Edit: After reading my post, I have to say that I can't say the guy sucks based on one hand, but I just found it mindboggling that a "pro" would hem and haw like he did in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the easiest call in history. What a nit, he put kaplan on QUADS!!! I wanted to smack him through the tv.

Another time, I don't remember the hand but he totally incorrectly called out the percentages of a hand on the flop. I wish I could remember.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Phil Gordon is the best announcer out there now that Howard Lederer isn't announcing. His willingness to criticize bad play, and even the tournament structure, is the best. And he's got a great sense of humour. I cracked up in the finals when the rookie got knocked out and he said "well the bad news is you got knocked out, the good news is you are going home with her" as the camera lingered on the rookies hot girl friend.

e's the only announcer other than Mike Sexton who's played at high levels (remember Gordon has made the final table in the Main Event). But he should have those teeth filed down.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Gabe Kaplan is the best announcer out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

hes a decent commentator because we don't have to look at him. but i would much rather listen to gabe kaplan, mike sexton or espn guys, because these guys make me laugh. i mean most of us at 2p2 are not going to learn anything by listening to teh commentators so at least make it entertaining.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

He's a great player. Phil Hellmuth said so

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

That was the easiest call in history. What a nit, he put kaplan on QUADS!!! I wanted to smack him through the tv.

Another time, I don't remember the hand but he totally incorrectly called out the percentages of a hand on the flop. I wish I could remember.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe Kaplan is a noted rock. And maybe Phil was thinking about putting in a raise (and maybe hollywooding to sell it).

Final table, main event. When you join Phil Gordon in getting there, maybe your TV poker level critiques might have a little more validity.

Oh, and one time, he got the math wrong!

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

From Wikipedia on Phil Gordon:

"Gordon appeared on the reality dating show Blind Date. When he and his lingerie model date, LeAnna, returned to his touring bus, she suddenly mentioned that she had a hot tub in her home, as if to suggest that they make use of it. Gordon proclaimed that he was "allergic" to Hot Tubs, turning her down."

Case closed. OP is right.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Phil Gordon is the best announcer out there now that Howard Lederer isn't announcing.


[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't watched Poker After Dark. But, Phil Gordon was excellent during last year's PPV broadcast of the World Series of Poker final table. I thought he moved ahead of Lederer at that point.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

one time i beat phil hu in a $550+20 HU sng on ftp, the last hand was my k6 > kq all in on a KJ3 flop when i had him down 2-1 at the start of the hand

Phil Gordon (Observer): nice game
WolverineBlues (Observer): Phil he bad beated you
Phil Gordon (Observer): really? I didn't notice
Phil Gordon (Observer): only about 88% to win when the money went in
Phil Gordon (Observer): no biggie

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That was the easiest call in history. What a nit, he put kaplan on QUADS!!! I wanted to smack him through the tv.

Another time, I don't remember the hand but he totally incorrectly called out the percentages of a hand on the flop. I wish I could remember.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gabe Kaplan is a noted rock. And maybe Phil was thinking about putting in a raise (and maybe hollywooding to sell it).

Final table, main event. When you join Phil Gordon in getting there, maybe your TV poker level critiques might have a little more validity.

Oh, and one time, he got the math wrong!

[/ QUOTE ]

im not sure if you watched this series of PAD, but kaplan was a hardly a rock. he was the most active player at the table since day 1. anyways, on the hand kaplan makes a small bluff on the river vs. phil who is holding the 2nd nuts. he can only lose to quads. the river bet by kaplan was small compared to the pot and both of their respective stacks. still phil gordon was severly stressed out and it took him a few minutes to make a call that was that was totally standard.

and according to your logic since gordon had more final table appearances than me, i am not allowed to have an opinion. if that is the case 99% of us should never criticize a pro's play. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
From Wikipedia on Phil Gordon:

"Gordon appeared on the reality dating show Blind Date. When he and his lingerie model date, LeAnna, returned to his touring bus, she suddenly mentioned that she had a hot tub in her home, as if to suggest that they make use of it. Gordon proclaimed that he was "allergic" to Hot Tubs, turning her down."

Case closed. OP is right.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahah, [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] that is too funny. is this the definition of a douche?

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

It wasn't the fact that he was wrong on the math on the one hand, it was the fact that when others questioned him, he like rolled his eyes and got all defensive.

And the Daniel comments, when he was "considering" folding aces full of kings, just makes it seem like he wants to be included with the bigger names so bad that its pathetic.

I think it was the Equalizer I was watching the other day on espn, and they were talking about the $50k horse event at last years wsop. The other announcer said that all of poker's most elite players played. Gordon, 100% serious, fires back, "well, almost all of them... I didn't play." That was more than enough for me to classify him as a joke. He just wants to be famous and popular like some of the other big names too bad.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

And to whoever called Kaplan a rock? I've seen him on 2 poker after darks, on the Equalizer, and on High Stakes Poker, and in all, he has always been one of the most active players.

And I'd MUCH rather listen to Kaplan or Sexton anyday. Given the choice between Norman Chad and Phil Gordon, I'll take a rusty knife to the stomach please.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
From Wikipedia on Phil Gordon:

"Gordon appeared on the reality dating show Blind Date. When he and his lingerie model date, LeAnna, returned to his touring bus, she suddenly mentioned that she had a hot tub in her home, as if to suggest that they make use of it. Gordon proclaimed that he was "allergic" to Hot Tubs, turning her down."

Case closed. OP is right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you see that episode? That chick was hugely annoying. If you were an independantly wealthy multimillionaire like Phil, do you think you would be desperate to bed a lingerie model? Phil probably has ten of them on booty call speed dial.

And for anyone who doubts whether Phil can play, here is the rest of the Wiki on him.

[ QUOTE ]

World Series of Poker

Phil Gordon first entered The World Series of Poker(WSOP) Main Event in 2001 and finished 4th, winning $400,000.[1] In 2002 he made two more WSOP final tables, finishing 6th in the $2,000 Pot Limit hold 'em event and 3rd in the $2,500 Omaha Hi/Lo Split event.[1] At the 2005 WSOP he finished 3rd in the $1,500 No Limit Texas hold 'em Shootout event. Although he made several WSOP final tables, he has yet to win a bracelet. To date, Gordon has won $641,073 at the World Series of Poker.

World Poker Tour

Gordon made one World Poker Tour(WPT) final table in 2002, finishing 5th in the Ultimate Bet Poker Classic. In March 2004 he knocked out two players at once (one of whom was Chris Moneymaker) to win the WPT's "Bay 101 Shooting Stars" tournament.[1]

Also in 2002, Gordon won the professional division of the World Poker Tour (WPT) inaugural tournament in Aruba, before losing to the amateur division's winner, Juha Helppi.

On Thanksgiving Day 2006, Gordon won the Full Tilt Poker Championship at Red Rock, beating Roland De Wolfe heads-up and taking down a purse of $600,000.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]


I think it was the Equalizer I was watching the other day on espn, and they were talking about the $50k horse event at last years wsop. The other announcer said that all of poker's most elite players played. Gordon, 100% serious, fires back, "well, almost all of them... I didn't play." That was more than enough for me to classify him as a joke. He just wants to be famous and popular like some of the other big names too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think u are missunderstanding Gordon here. Im almost sure (without seeing that show) that Gordon was making a joke at his expense.

Im not a Gordon fan but im not a Gordon hater either but i did really enjoy his live WSOP final table commentary.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

Gabe Kaplan is a noted rock. And maybe Phil was thinking about putting in a raise (and maybe hollywooding to sell it).


[/ QUOTE ]

Ummmmm....no. I'm pretty sure that wasn't it.

I am not ignorant enough to say someone sucks based on one hand...however, I think his behavior on that hand was pretty telling.

I also enjoyed his WSOP ME FT commentary. He seems like a really nice guy, who is knowledgeable about poker. However, my feeling is that he's not one of the best.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

and according to your logic since gordon had more final table appearances than me, i am not allowed to have an opinion. if that is the case 99% of us should never criticize a pro's play. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not what I said. I said you were analyzing this hand based on the little bit of the tournament a TV editor allowed you to see. You are belittling him without knowing what his read was (maybe he had a tell on Kaplan that he was extremely strong), what action had preceded, or even whether he was thinking of raising.

My point about his WSOP final table appearance was just that he's an accomplished player. If you want to believe you're better player than Phil, then you must have a better poker resume, right?

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
The other announcer said that all of poker's most elite players played. Gordon, 100% serious, fires back, "well, almost all of them... I didn't play." That was more than enough for me to classify him as a joke. He just wants to be famous and popular like some of the other big names too bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not hear this, but I am almost sure that Phil was mostly joking.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

lol, yah based on that one hand im a better player than phil gordon, lolmfao. no one is saying they are better than him, this thread is basically a 'phil gordon is a douche' thread. stop raining on our parade, go make another thread [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

Did you see that episode? That chick was hugely annoying. If you were an independantly wealthy multimillionaire like Phil, do you think you would be desperate to bed a lingerie model? Phil probably has ten of them on booty call speed dial.


[/ QUOTE ]

In the old Tiltboy trip reports that were posted to RGP, Phil had a reputation as a notorious pussy hound who would hit on every MILFy old skank that happened to sit at his table.

Also, his job on Celebrity Poker may well have introduced him to a bunch of celebrity [censored] buddies, seduced by his mad card playing skills.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

For an experienced pro, he whines a lot and I've seen him make some pretty bad plays. I'm sure he's a decent enough player, but the guy started out with millions of dollars.

He's got the little fish icon on sharkscope. -25% ROI? Granted it's a sample size of 42.

Do we really know that this guy is a winning player at all? Not like it would be hard to hide losses.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

No one here is pushing half ass poker books or posing as a professional commentator trying to cash in as an expert in something which they clearly are not. Phil Gordon is doing this - so he is a douche. He may be a nice guy and everything - but he's just another instance of those who can't do teach/commentate. I like Gabe - not because he is supposedly an expert - but because he is a PRO in front of the camera and hilarious.

Gordon's recent tourney results do not compare to his peers - Grinder, Negreanu, Ivey, Cunningham, Lindgren. Its not even close - and i don't know of anyone that seriously considers him a great tourney player. Finishing at the final table of the ME is a good accomplishment - but what about Varkoniy and Moneymaker - are you going to buy their books or consider them experts?

I don't know if he plays high stakes cash games - but I don't recall anyone claiming he is a great cash game guy like greenstein, ivey, reese, brunson, forrest etc.

And as far as i know, he doesn't crush online - he's no sbrugby, luigi (patrik antonius) or any of the others.

All i can go by is what i've seen, and his recent performances show that he's just not on the level of those that are supposedly his peers.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Desert Cat,

You list what at first glace appears to be an impressive list of final tables, but doesn't he enter almost every single WSOP and WPT event? Granted, he's free rolling in those tourneys courtesy of Full Tilt, so he's an overall tourney winner. But for a guy with numerous podcasts, books, magazine gigs and poker appearances, the results are a little shy of impressive to me.

BTW, if forced to go heads-up against any of the members of the Full Tilt crew, Gordon would probably be the most popular choice, (besides Conie Gowen). Don't you agree?

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

He's definitely way over-rated and absolutely full of himself. Still, he is reputedly a decent guy IRL and has had some success (WSOP final tables & WPT wins) to back it up. He's really not deserving of much hate. I rank him as one of those players I'd just as soon not watch, but can stand if I have to.

Also--"Gabe Kaplan is a noted rock" Who made that note? It seems some of the pros have heard it too, judging by the way they play him, yet every time I see Gabe on TV he's pretty loose and aggro, practically a maniac. Seems to bluff and gamble a lot.

(As for playing heads-up, Gordon would be a decent choice, but Full Tilt has some others on the payroll that would just as good or better IMO. Steve Brecher (sp?), Gavin Smith, Clonie Gowen, Steve Zolotow, etc.)

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

I didn't even know he played poker anymore

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

Do we really know that this guy is a winning player at all? Not like it would be hard to hide losses.

[/ QUOTE ]
He made $95 mill from selling his internet company = winner
Gets more quality women most of us combined = player

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Wasn't Gordon the last or second to the last choice in the PPL's draft? I don't think his play is all that respected among his peers.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Gordon is a good guy and he really does not play that much. He also has a healthy understanding of how silly most TV poker is, and his sense of humor shines through in most of his commentary. I could see how this can rub you the wrong way, but the slightly mocking tone in his comments makes a ton of sense to me.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

He's part of the lawsuit against the WPT, so obviously he doesn't play in WPT tournaments. He cashed in 4 WSOP events last year. Other than WSOP and Full Tilt events, I don't think he plays much any more. I wouldn't either in his shoes.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

Seems to be a mortal sin to think before calling a bet these days. It never hurts not to rush into things when making a decision for a good sum of money.

Re: PHIL GORDON!!!!!!!!!!
 

I don't think that Phil Gordon really thinks of himself as an elite player, but I do think he has an egotistical belief that he can run over anyone who is not an elite player. This makes him trappable.

Also, keep in mind that he's not really a pro in the sense of making a living off the game. He seems more interested in gaining the ESPN commentating job than actually playing in the WSOP.