Simple river question
 

Everest Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00/$2.00 (HH Converter by Kreatief)

<font color="blue">Villain is a tag, 23/14. Not very good, but not a target at this table. His line confuses me, looks like either air or a monster. Call or fold river?</font>

Button ($296.75)
SB ($192.30)
BB ($89.61)
MP3 ($99.20)
CO ($853.50) (Hero)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $22.00</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, Hero calls $15.00,

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $47 )
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $34.00</font>, SB calls $34.00,

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $115 )
SB checks, Hero checks,

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ( $115 )
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $75.00</font>, Hero ?

Re: Simple river question
 

I fold these all day long. Flush got there. 35 got there. Sets were already there. KK/AA weird play still beat you.

Re: Simple river question
 

How on earth is villain going to show up with a flush here after calling that rainbow flop OOP? This guy might not be godsgift to poker, but he aint stupid. Also, its a reraised pot so I can't see him show up ith 53 too much either.

I think that this is KK/AA (maybe QQ) very often, and I'd fold. I expect him to induce a bluff from you if he is holding TT/JJ, since your line looks like air.

Re: Simple river question
 

I call but I cant think what he might have [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Simple river question
 

I swear the god you had different avatar like 30s ago :P

Re: Simple river question
 

Why can't he be defending his blinds agressively? Why can't he have a[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

Fwiw I think those are smaller parts of his range, but part of his range nonetheless.

Re: Simple river question
 

fold

Re: Simple river question
 

I fold. Looks like a weird AA/KK to me trying to get paid on the river.

Re: Simple river question
 

i don't really like the flop bet much.

Re: Simple river question
 

close between calling and shoving, I guess just call. Also, I don't like betting the flop that much unless you're going to bet the turn big as well.

Re: Simple river question
 

ALso, wtf at people saying this could be a straight or flush? R U serious?

Re: Simple river question
 

Call.

Re: Simple river question
 

[ QUOTE ]
close between calling and shoving, I guess just call. Also, I don't like betting the flop that much unless you're going to bet the turn big as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would we even consider shoving here?

Re: Simple river question
 

I'd call, hard to give him a range cos his line is so weird. Only hand that seems to fit is another AQ.

Re: Simple river question
 

[ QUOTE ]
How on earth is villain going to show up with a flush here after calling that rainbow flop OOP? This guy might not be godsgift to poker, but he aint stupid. Also, its a reraised pot so I can't see him show up ith 53 too much either.

I think that this is KK/AA (maybe QQ) very often, and I'd fold. I expect him to induce a bluff from you if he is holding TT/JJ, since your line looks like air.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think people won't peel w/ AKcc? or AJcc? to a 34$ cbet into a 47$ pot? You are dreaming, he knows he could have 2 big cards that missed. He could also have AQo as well. It looks to me more like a AKcc or Set of 9s or Qs alot more often then air. I don't think it's KK/AA either. I think he raises flop with those and doesn't lead river when Flush gets there. He would probalby c/c river with those 2 hands.

In re to him being OOP. OP said he wasn't very good so that also makes he think he doesn't understand position very well.

Given all this rambling, I'd say fold.

WOW. i just realized SB was 3 bettor, and he checks flop. How brutal is that. I also hate betting this flop in this spot. You are just bloating the pot for when you are crushed. It makes Set of 9s even more likely in my mind. or AA.

I say fold still.

Re: Simple river question
 

dmoney,

AA and KK can smooth this flop perfectly..no real draws out there. Also, people that peel this flop in a rr pot with AcKc are complete fish most of the time, this guy is too loose pre and not aggro enough, but we can't assume he is a total fish.

To all the callers, I'd like to hear some more arguments..what do you guys think villains line represents? Nick? Shpanko? Jfsports?

I agree with the comment that if you are betting this flop, be prepared to bet turn as well.

Re: Simple river question
 

[ QUOTE ]
To all the callers, I'd like to hear some more arguments..what do you guys think villains line represents? Nick? Shpanko? Jfsports?


[/ QUOTE ]
Just don't see what he's repping. Can't see why he would check/call the flop with AA/KK. We can't assume he's a donk, but his stats looks a bit suspect. I think we're beat alot but ahead of smaller PPs, retarded AK or random paired junk enough (29%+).

Re: Simple river question
 

I don't get why I should bet the turn again. People tend to play very straightforward in 3bet pots, especially these tagfish guys.

When he checks the flop to me, I assume he missed the flop. However when he calls my flop bet I can be fairly sure that he has some kind of made hand/draw. Why would he c/c flop, c/f turn? It doesn't make sense. AQ is in bad shape against his calling range on the flop, so second barreling seems spewy.

Re: Simple river question
 

SSNL advocates peeling flop with TT and JJ and folding to another barrel on the turn alot.

Re: Simple river question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't like betting the flop that much unless you're going to bet the turn big as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why isnt the bet on the flop good? I dont get it... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
He has to bet this flop right, and the betsize looks good to me (3/4).
Please explain

Re: Simple river question
 

[ QUOTE ]
SSNL advocates peeling flop with TT and JJ and folding to another barrel on the turn alot.

[/ QUOTE ]Yeah, but judging from his stats we can't assume he reads SSNL.

@Ranger_Trivette: I am not the 3better in this hand.

What about pre-flop by the way? Is folding an option against a 23/14, or is that to weak?

Re: Simple river question
 

yes, but still the flopbet is good, since you rep TT-JJ that is trying to fold out whiffed overs?

Re: Simple river question
 

Hmmm i would have to say that given his non post flop agressive stats there is a good chance he could have 1010 or jj or somethin like that or other than that he has taken your checking the turn as weakness and feels he can take the pot with the river bet. Either way i cant advocate calling as more often than not this is going to be a losing position.