preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

Stars 20r (hope this is fine for HSMTT). Villain is 37/25/inf over just 16 hands, I think I recognize him as a decent player. My image is pretty loose, and probably somewhat bad (thus I don't expect him to be doing this against me w/ anything but a premium).

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed)

UTG (t14410)
UTG+1 (t17890)
MP1 (t6695)
MP2 (t8252)
MP3 (t8617)
Hero (t17116)
Button (t7625)
SB (t15500)
BB (t22875)

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t200, MP1 calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t950</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to t2600</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero...

Does anyone disagree with calling, intending to fold to a reasonable cbet on any flop not containing a jack?

Edit: Oh and the limpers were playing 50/10 and 30/10, limping a decent ammount.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

why would u fold to a cbet on any flop not containing a jack?

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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why would u fold to a cbet on any flop not containing a jack?

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I figure his range is weighted heavily towards QQ+

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

why in the world would you think that given the relevant info you provided in the OP

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

id call and get it in on a lot of flops, not just awesome ones.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

I find the combination of villains position+reraise size highly suspicious.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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id call and get it in on a lot of flops, not just awesome ones.

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Fair enough. Can you expand a little? By "a lot of flops", do you mean most flops of all undercards?

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I find the combination of villains position+reraise size highly suspicious.

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Suspicious as in.. you think his range might be kinda wide? Or as in he seems v strong?

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

If you're worried that much of his range being QQ's&gt; , why call hoping for a two outer. Just fold.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

Unless you view villain as a donkey I would agree with his range being QQ+ in this spot (him being oop on the flop defines his hand pretty well). I will call his reraise because of the implied odds of hitting a set. I will give up on the flop if we don't improve.

I think the spot would be much harder if villain had position on hero.

Also I don't see any point of including villain's stats based on only 16 hands.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

lol... its amazing to me that ppl can say this and not see the irony: "nless you view villain as a donkey I would agree with his range being QQ+ in this spot "

so if he's good you kno exactly what he has... and if he's bad you have no clue?

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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lol... its amazing to me that ppl can say this and not see the irony: "nless you view villain as a donkey I would agree with his range being QQ+ in this spot "

so if he's good you kno exactly what he has... and if he's bad you have no clue?

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It's just a matter of wording. If he's an average type player and understands the gap concept his range would be QQ+. If he's donkish I would often put him on the wider range than QQ+. There can also be a great player who might see through this spot and decides to make a play.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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lol... its amazing to me that ppl can say this and not see the irony: "nless you view villain as a donkey I would agree with his range being QQ+ in this spot "

so if he's good you kno exactly what he has... and if he's bad you have no clue?

[/ QUOTE ]
It's just a matter of wording. If he's an average type player and understands the gap concept his range would be QQ+. If he's donkish I would often put him on the wider range than QQ+. There can also be a great player who might see through this spot and decides to make a play.

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dksgfkjdsagkjglkglkg

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

so he can have a wide range if he's donkish or he can have a wide range if he's great..

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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so he can have a wide range if he's donkish or he can have a wide range if he's great..

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actually that is a fairly good way of describing it.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

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[ QUOTE ]
so he can have a wide range if he's donkish or he can have a wide range if he's great..

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actually that is a fairly good way of describing it.

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My initial thoughts were (and of course I could be wrong, that's why I'm posting this Q) that not that many players are "great" enough to have a wide range here. Since he certainly didn't seem like a spewy donkey, I figured his range was pretty tight.

Not to bug you about this Ansky, but which non-J-containing flops are you getting it in on? I called PF with the intentions of folding unless I flopped really good... it came T6Tr, he led for 2/3rd and I folded according to plan. However I think (and it sounds like) my "plan" was too conservative in defining what flops are "really good". That's why I'm hoping to reevaluate my thought process PF in determining how to approach various flops.

Re: preflop implied odds quesssssstion
 

I would never fold the TT6 flop i mean at the very least AQ,AK make up a big part of his range if he is playing straightforwardly, if not which is more likely, he can have other broadways, suited connectors and a few smaller pairs at least.