Hmmm Discuss?
 

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $2/$4
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $384
CO: $296.70
Button: $535.80
SB: $1897.40
HERO: $256.30

Pre-flop: (5 players) HERO is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $9</font>, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, HERO calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($29, 3 players)
HERO checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $14.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $40</font>, HERO calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $203.5</font>, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises all-in $247.3</font>, UTG calls, Button calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($770.9, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $770.9)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG is all-in $127.7</font>, Button calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($1026.3, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $770.9, Sidepot 1: $255.4)


Results:
Final pot: $1026.3

Opponent hands/equity to come after some discussion

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

What's there to discuss? Ni han.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

how is this not standard. Reload preflop maybe there would be something to discuss?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Looks like you are up against 2 sets. This is a great spot assuming neither has a wrap.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

I think it's more interesting to discuss how you might play this in PLO8. I might play it the same way, in fact.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

I thought I would post it because it is so so so similar to the hand we discussed earlier with the exception of a preflop raise. Most people were convinced to have the hero fold the middle set. Middle set would be the best hand here.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Never mind all that, how would you play this hand in PLO8?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

If button raises full pot do you fold?

If no, what if both of them bet and raise pot?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

fold preflop
questionable call on flop
all in is ok
maybe im too nitty thou

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

what, is your VPIP like 5%?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If button raises full pot do you fold?

If no, what if both of them bet and raise pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm basically never folding ever. I just felt after the hand that it was another situation where it's never great to stick it in here and folding is too nitty. I'm only REALLY in trouble if they both have club outs. A 6 may or may not be good for me here. But If someone does have a 468x type hand then the 3,4, and NFD in my hand are some pretty serious blockers.

I just thought I would post it because it doesn't seem 100% standard, I was pretty indifferent about it when I put my money in. Usually I am either like "[censored] this is too thin" or "standard", but this kind of caught me like "bleh".

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

id argue to fold to button raise simply because you OOP with another player to act. if UTG flat calls button raise you are faced with a very crappy decision on turn when you miss and you are just cold calling raises - you hand is more than obvious. the allin 3 way id say isnt a bad move, but that removes your positional disadvantage.

btw plo8 with this hand - bet flop, raise flop, allin, cant wait to jam all my chips in center

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

are people saying this is super standard because he's so short? at what depth would you not felt this against 2 opponents willing to get it in?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

At a table full of mostly passive players where the original raiser is virtually guaranteed to c-bet i would c/r this flop 100% of the time unless stacks were in the 400BB range. At a very active table where people are routinely felting two pair and getting it all in with small wraps on boards like this I prefer leading.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

rempel,

when you checkraise this flop 200bb deep, you're not going to be even remotely close to all in. is the intention to get it in, heads up? 3 way?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Nah if I checkraise this flop it's because I expect to have some fold equity or I expect my opponents will felt all kinds of hands that I am in good shape against. If I am in MP for example, and there are quite a few donkey callers acting before me but the PFR is in LP a checkraise is sweet because the PFR will cont bet and the donks will call with lots of weak draws because they aren't commiting stacks yet. The checkraise will either win me the pot outright, get it HU with plenty of dead money, or get it all-in multiway, all of which are great outcomes.

Sorry, I've been awake for what seems like days now and I know I didn't answer your first question.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

rempel...do you consider that sort of check raise semibluff standard?? against multiple opponents?? headsup???

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

what, is your VPIP like 5%?

[/ QUOTE ]
what are u going to catch there? the best hand you may get in most cases just [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flush
are u gonna play with 32 for flush?
u dont have 6, so u dont have nuts str8 in most time
totally dont know how to call this hand preflop untill you arent SB or very shorthanded

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Like I said it is pretty game dependant, but yeah checkraising with the NFD + a little extra is pretty standard.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

let me ask why?
to get enough fold equity?
if u facing with trips you are 30:70 to win, dont u?

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

The most likely set to felt here is KKxx. It's highly unlikely that your gut shot isn't good against KK (he'd have to have exactly KK98 or KK84) so you're usually a lot better than 30:70, more like 37/63. You're only 30/70 against a hand like 7789.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

i said about TheRembel post: """Like I said it is pretty game dependant, but yeah checkraising with the NFD + a little extra is pretty standard.""

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

I'll post the results when I get home.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Mostly what rempel said on this hand... some variations but nothing worth talking about.

O8, I am shoving as much chip in there as possible as value bets.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Because if they are tight-passive enough they are only calling with KK, 77 and huge draws my fold equity pushes it well into the +EV territory.

And when there are people that will call with fairly weak hands/draws (two pair when it is obvious a set is out, hands like 468) then I expect to be playing a large multiway pot which is great too.

Re: Hmmm Discuss?
 

Preflop Riaser - 5d Kh 8h 6d
Flop raiser - 7d 2c Kd 9c

Equity is as close to 33% as it gets for all three players.