AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

When a hand has multiple callers I often limp from the blinds with these hands figuring no one will fold to a raise. Then on the flop I can check, evaluate the action and easily set up a check raise or fold if necessary. I've also been known to do this with medium pairs as high as QQ.

When my Ace big is suited I am much more likely to raise preflop from the blinds to help any drawing odds I may have later in the hand.

Am I giving up to much by limping with these big hands from the blinds?

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

I'm not sure if your giving up alot, but your def. making a mistake.. you probably have one if not the best hand. And you want to build up the pot.

Learning to protect your hand after the flop by check raising is where I think you need help in.

By raising not only are you implying you have a good hand, you might get a free card with people being afraid of a check raise ...

so I think you are better off raising. You have +EV at this point preflop most of the time with limpers so build it up.

I think your way of playing is safe, and maybe good in a tight aggressive game, but in many loose limit games like the ones going on now.. your are better of bumping it up..

goodluck ...

PM me if you need anymore help or thoughts...

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

I like to raise these up almost every time in either blinds if there has been no PF raises to me yet. Once in a while I will just complete or check them but not most of the time

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

Id say Im 50/50 raise or call with these hands from the blinds with multiple limpers. When the pot is shorthanded or raised in late position I raise it up most often. Only in this specific situation posted above am I likely to play this way. Does anyone have any info on how much + or - this is or perhaps a link to a previous thread that dealt with this subject?
Thanks

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

[ QUOTE ]
When a hand has multiple callers I often limp from the blinds with these hands figuring no one will fold to a raise. Then on the flop I can check, evaluate the action and easily set up a check raise or fold if necessary. I've also been known to do this with medium pairs as high as QQ.

When my Ace big is suited I am much more likely to raise preflop from the blinds to help any drawing odds I may have later in the hand.

Am I giving up to much by limping with these big hands from the blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]

In most cases you are doing the right thing, especially with AQ. You should only raise with AQ if you can limit the pot to a very small number of players (Holdem for Advance Players, direct quote). Raising AQ in the small blind with a few limpers is downright silly. See the Caro essay contest and threads.

With AK there is a stronger case for raising as you have more preflop equity. But concealing your hand when you have such poor position is probably worth at least as much.

In short, you are not giving up anything.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

I would always raise both especially at loose tables.
(With the exception to have a bit of variation I would occasionally limp, say 10% of the time).
I would doubt if anyone bar the first caller had AA or KK and so I would consider my hand to be probably ahead ( or having enough outs to a smaller pair) and by raising I am making any loose limpers pay. I would likely be dominating some of them and at this time and I would be happy to be playing in a big pot. Perhaps against very many limpers I too would only limp to disguise the hand (I would also start to worry that the last limper may too have a big hand.)

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When a hand has multiple callers I often limp from the blinds with these hands figuring no one will fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
With AKo or AQo I would be happy with everyone calling my raise, I would get worried if the first limper re-raised.

As a caviate - I play $0.5/1.00 limit and I am only just profitable at that!

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

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Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

But AQ in the small blind?? What on earth gain is there to doing this against several limpers? You immediately give every 4 outer the proper pot odds to call on the flop. That can't be right unless the players are so poor that they are in there with virtually any two cards.

Another Sklansky/Malmuth quote:" In general you should not raise with offsuit hands (other than AK) except to isolate a weak opponent." and this is in the loose games section, since you mentioned loose games.

See Holdem Poker for Advanced Players, 21st Century Addition, p 161-162.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

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Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I make so much more money when I limp these hands. You want the guy with A9o betting into you when you have AK. If you raise he is less likely to pay you off.

It's the "You gotta raise that preflop" regurgitation that has allowed me to trap the hell out of people and make so much money.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I make so much more money when I limp these hands. You want the guy with A9o betting into you when you have AK. If you raise he is less likely to pay you off.

It's the "You gotta raise that preflop" regurgitation that has allowed me to trap the hell out of people and make so much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing against players who will often lay down A9 in this situation with an A on board, then you might be correct. However, there are plenty of games out there where a raise w/AK or AQ in the blinds will not stop the guy with a weaker A to pay you off on every street. In this case, you have missed a huge pot equity edge by not raising preflop.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I make so much more money when I limp these hands. You want the guy with A9o betting into you when you have AK. If you raise he is less likely to pay you off.

It's the "You gotta raise that preflop" regurgitation that has allowed me to trap the hell out of people and make so much money.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing against players who will often lay down A9 in this situation with an A on board, then you might be correct. However, there are plenty of games out there where a raise w/AK or AQ in the blinds will not stop the guy with a weaker A to pay you off on every street. In this case, you have missed a huge pot equity edge by not raising preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just now realized this post was about Limit. So yeah I was mistaken.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

One thing it depends upon is the quality of your opponents. Raising probably has more value if they play almost any two, will raise preflop with pocket pairs and big aces, and play poorly after the flop. It probably has less value if your opponents aren't playing any two suited and you've just happened on a hand where more people on average pick up hands that are at least marginal, like T9o, 44, and A2s.

I'm not sure about the math, but it seems reasonable to suspect that AQ does worse against opponents who will at least limp in with any ace, but fold king-rag or queen-rag than against opponents who will play any ace or king and any two suited because you're likely to have more outs to hit top pair against the second set of opponents, given the same number of people in pre-flop.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not raising in loose games with AQ, AK and QQ is terrible.

[/ QUOTE ]

But AQ in the small blind?? What on earth gain is there to doing this against several limpers? You immediately give every 4 outer the proper pot odds to call on the flop. That can't be right unless the players are so poor that they are in there with virtually any two cards.

Another Sklansky/Malmuth quote:" In general you should not raise with offsuit hands (other than AK) except to isolate a weak opponent." and this is in the loose games section, since you mentioned loose games.

See Holdem Poker for Advanced Players, 21st Century Addition, p 161-162.

[/ QUOTE ]

It also says on p. 160 that "...if people are coming in with absolutely everything, you have got to raise with an AQ simply because your hand is so much better on average than so many of the other players."

Anyhow, you should read Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth. Either they changed their mind about these types of hands or their advice for playing them slow only applies to a very specific type of game that doesn't really exist anymore. Something along the lines that your opponents play loose preflop but reasonably well postflop.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

[ QUOTE ]

Anyhow, you should read Small Stakes Hold'em by Miller, Sklansky, and Malmuth. Either they changed their mind about these types of hands or their advice for playing them slow only applies to a very specific type of game that doesn't really exist anymore. Something along the lines that your opponents play loose preflop but reasonably well postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the Small Stakes Hold'em introduction, they say that any differing advice from SSHE and Hold'em for Advanced Players is not a contradiction nor a retraction, but rather a difference in the types of games the books are written for.

Re: AK, AQ offsuit in the blinds, limit holdem
 

I have both books and don't see any contradiction. In addition, I said in my post that you might raise with something like AQ against many limpers if their limping standards were very poor, such as any two cards.

The advice in the Sklansky book is spot on for the typical mid-stakes (8/16 to 40/80) games of today. There is usually a mix of very good, average, and poor players. The advice to raise in such games is for a table of weakies, like you might find in a 4/8 game.