Was I cheated?
 

Hey Guys,

I need your help and opinions with this hand. Last Saturday night, I was playing a 4-way cash game with a couple of friends with buy-in at $40. I was greeted outside by the host as we smoked a cigarette before going inside. The two other players are best friends, next-door neighbors that I've known for about 1 year. One of the these guys is very talented, crushes most low-stakes games and openly talks about dealing off the bottom of the deck and a book he has read entitled, "How to cheat your friends in poker". So here was the situation. Me and the host came in, sat down and began playing right away. They had the decks "shuffled" although neither of us recall cutting them. The first hand, the host raised and everyone folded. On the second hand, I looked down at 3c-9c, obviously trash, but I limped in anyway. The host [on the button] folded and the three of us saw a flop: 10c-Jc-Qc. First to act checked, 'good player' guy bet $1 and I triple bet him. Then first to act [an extremely tight player] raised to $8. The guy who bet $1 almost folded immediately and threw his hand to my friend [host] who wasnt in the hand to look at and said "look what I folded!" I flat called and the turn brough a low spade. He fired $10 and I thought for a while and called. At this point I put him on 8-9, A-K, and mostly likely an A or K of clubs. I suspected that he had a higher flush, since my 9 high was vulnerable. The river brought a meaningless card and he checked. I figured there was no point in betting as I was worried about a check-raise. He flipped over Ac5c and showed the top flush. This is where it gets shady. My friend the host says, "I folded 4c8c'' and he dug out of the muck his cards. It turns out that the guy who insta-folded after the raise, re-raise had 2c6c and one of the burn cards was a Kc. When you think about it, that means that 11 of the top 12 cards had to have been clubs, while, I know for a fact that 12/13 were. Add that to the fact that we are playing 4 way and everybody flops a flush is ridiculous. I played the rest of the session and chose not to think about the $20 I lost, but was certainly suspect. After 2 days of reflection, me and the host are beginning to think we got cheated. Here are some facts/ Q's:

-First Bettor insta-folded to the raise, re-raise as if he didn't even think about it
-If the tight player check-raised the flop, is it reasonable to assume that he would at least value-bet the river when he knew I had a strong hand just calling him down? I feel as though this may have been stopping on the bleeding without being too obvious...
-Could this have just been a prank gone wrong and neither of them had the balls to say anything?
-Does anybody know the statistical probability of 4 people flopping a flush 4-way of a shuffled deck?
-There seemed to be a lot of acting in retrospect with both of the friends making comments about the hand

So what do you guys think...was I cheated or do I have to give them the benefit of the doubt?

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Im anxiously looking forward to the quality replies in this thread

Re: Was I cheated?
 

are any of the players at this table named Tom or Scott?

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
are any of the players at this table named Tom or Scott?

[/ QUOTE ]

Or both names in one LDO.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Thank you Sir may I have another.
You should have smoked the cigarette with the host after that hand.
Did he tell you he loves you after?
Did he make you sit in the chair with the wet spot?

Re: Was I cheated?
 

fold preflop wtf

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Was the deck used brand new. If it was, then all the cards were in order by suit. If the initial shuffle was only done a few times then most likely, the same suits would be together but out of order which would explain the deal. If not,, then you got hosed.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

I know when i want to cheat someone i give them something just unfoldable preflop...like 93s.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

So,you lost 20$ in a homegame?

Re: Was I cheated?
 

One of the 4 players has a book called "how to cheat your friends in poker"

No, i dont think you were cheated

Re: Was I cheated?
 

i would not post this here, i would go to the police or even higher authority and let them be the judge. if they cheated you they could be cheating others imo. think about it op.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would not post this here, i would go to the police or even higher authority and let them be the judge. if they cheated you they could be cheating others imo. think about it op.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol'd

Re: Was I cheated?
 

you got hosed
swindled
cheated

call the police

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would not post this here, i would go to the police or even higher authority and let them be the judge. if they cheated you they could be cheating others imo. think about it op.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went to my priest and after careful deliberation he concluded that you weren't cheated op. Crisis averted.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

I ran this on Absolute Pokers hand simulator several times. The first run you def were not cheated. The second time, 97%. The third time.....

Re: Was I cheated?
 

If you look at the actual hands dealt:
Player 1: A5c
Player 2: 26c
Player 3: 39c
Player 4: 48c
Burn card: ?
Flop: TJQc
Burn card: Kc

The the deck held the following card in order:
A2345698?TJQK of clubs.

It looks like the deck may have been brand new and was either:
1. Not shuffled at all and some cards got misplaced accidentally (since the sequence is almost perfect)
2. Was shuffled very poorly
3. Was fake shuffled unsuccessfully - A fake shuffle is a sequence that looks like a shuffle but leaves the deck unchanged.

I think the most likely scenario is #1 for a few reasons:
1. #2 is very unlikely. Even a very weak shuffle will leave the deck with the suits at least broken up a bit.
2. #3 would be used for cheating but given the way the cards were dealt (even if the fake shuffle were perfect and the deck remained unchanged) doesn't look it was designed to create a very large pot and even if it did, is very suspicious. If you were cheating, you would probably set up some better cards sequence to induce and trap an opponent.

I vote for "Deck wasn't Shuffled" accidentally.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
openly talks about dealing off the bottom of the deck and a book he has read entitled, "How to cheat your friends in poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

If he read the book then he would know to never talk about cheating at all. If he cheats then he is bad cheat.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know when i want to cheat someone i give them something just unfoldable preflop...like 93s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Was I cheated?
 

fold that crap preflop and this wont happen

EDIT: Clubs are the first suitin a deck of cards and that was a lot of low cards... seems to me that it was taken out of the case and not shuffled at all. giving everyone low clubs (including the ace) and then the high clubs on the board. If you were cheated they didn't do a very good job.

Find a better homegame.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Who cares it's $20 just don't play there again

Re: Was I cheated?
 

After 2 days and you're thinking about a single hand that didn't even stack you, I don't think it's worth the effort for ~$20

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know when i want to cheat someone i give them something just unfoldable preflop...like 93s.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Bukkake the tattoo girl.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

hahaha

[ QUOTE ]
One of the these guys is very talented, crushes most low-stakes games and openly talks about dealing off the bottom of the deck and a book he has read entitled, "How to cheat your friends in poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

chances are yes

Re: Was I cheated?
 

also wtf

if it's the second hand, then you had to have shuffled the deck after the first.............

since you have to shuffle between each hand when playing poker unless you are stupid

you may be stupid, and you may have been cheated

ok, i guess you were using 2 decks... wtf at not asking for a shuffle and not asking for a cut... that's just basic

Re: Was I cheated?
 

OP probably screwed up any chances of fixing a cold deck by calling preflop. wtf he was aiming at someone else, not you.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bukkake the tattoo girl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Was I cheated?
 

ok i actually read this whole shitfuck of a thread

1) every single one of you probably sucks at poker even worse than i

2) i think you guys were using a brand new deck that hadn't been shuffled.... these usually come w/ all the suits grouped together

3) you weren't cheated and you're an absolute neandrethal for not managing to lose more money

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3) you weren't cheated and you're an absolute neandrethal for not managing to lose more money

[/ QUOTE ]

loollloolloo

btw i cant stop staring at ur avatar. u suck.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

"3c-9c, but I limped anyway"
I don't know why anyone would bother cheating against you.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

set up hands would be better than 26,48 39. Really seems like an unshuffled deck. Like you cracked two decks, shuffled the first, then dealt the second w/out shuffling it.

Although w/e, if they're cheating for 20 bucks from friends they're morons anyway and capable of awful handrigging.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
set up hands would be better than 26,48 39. Really seems like an unshuffled deck. Like you cracked two decks, shuffled the first, then dealt the second w/out shuffling it.

Although w/e, if they're cheating for 20 bucks from friends they're morons anyway and capable of awful handrigging.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I flat called and the turn brough a low spade. He fired $10 and I thought for a while and called. At this point I put him on 8-9, A-K, and mostly likely an A or K of clubs. I suspected that he had a higher flush, since my 9 high was vulnerable. The river brought a meaningless card and he checked. I figured there was no point in betting as I was worried about a check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome analysis here.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

I want to thank you all for your feedback and insight. This is not a joke post--it did happen. Many of you had valuable input and some of you provided no help whatsoever other than call me stupid. I'm actually a profitable player with the desire to get better each day. I don't appreciate the unnecessary insults--another thing wrong with today's game. If nothing else, let me be 'that guy' that made a $20 mistake which could save you much more. I was naive to think that a 'friend' wouldn't pull this kind of crap, but at the same time when you are dealing with money and the desire to win anything is possible. If anyone has read 'Ace on the River' they would recall an incident where he was cheated and lost his bankroll. Don't let this be you! Here are the mistakes I made, which I will be sure not to do again:

1- Not shuffling/ cutting the deck
2- Not exposing the deck after the hand was over
3- Not calling them out about it on the spot
4- Not recognizing the statistical improbability of what occurred
5- Going against my read
and
6- Limping in position with trash

Re: Was I cheated?
 

Thanks for your input.

Re: Was I cheated?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want to thank you all for your feedback and insight. This is not a joke post--it did happen. Many of you had valuable input and some of you provided no help whatsoever other than call me stupid. I'm actually a profitable player with the desire to get better each day. I don't appreciate the unnecessary insults--another thing wrong with today's game. If nothing else, let me be 'that guy' that made a $20 mistake which could save you much more. I was naive to think that a 'friend' wouldn't pull this kind of crap, but at the same time when you are dealing with money and the desire to win anything is possible. If anyone has read 'Ace on the River' they would recall an incident where he was cheated and lost his bankroll. Don't let this be you! Here are the mistakes I made, which I will be sure not to do again:

1- Not shuffling/ cutting the deck
2- Not exposing the deck after the hand was over
3- Not calling them out about it on the spot
4- Not recognizing the statistical improbability of what occurred
5- Going against my read
and
6- Limping in position with trash

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf are you going to do if you expose them and caught them?

if these people were so desperate to cheat for $20, they are probably poor and on the verge of poverty. poor people do stupid things, b/c they have nothing to lose. if you pointed out their cheating, at the very least, you'd be bukkake'd like the tattoo girl from the other home game thread that found itself into bbv.

edit: it's really bad that it took 3 people to swindel someone else for a whopping $20