protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Need some advice on these drinks. I was just at the supplement store and guy recommended I take a preworkout Creatine drink called Superpump250. I was looking at the pamphlet he gave me and it shows a pics of 2 guys who took one dose of this preworkout and they took pics b4 and after the workout and u can see an incredible difference. So much so that I am obviously skeptical. It also says in the pamphlet that they did a study with placebo drinks and those who got the placebo had a 3.5% increase in lean muscle mass of the arms and those who took superpump250 gained 9%.

Anyways, he suggested I take Creatine preworkout and a protein drink right after. I ended up buying just the protein drink called Iso Flex bc it tasted good and I wanted to make sure I keep on this stuff.

A little about me. I'm 38 and 6ft tall but only 163 lbs. I want to weigh about 175 to 180lbs. I joined the gym 5 weeks ago and have been going about 5-6 times a week including cardio about 3 times a week. I would definitley consider myself a hard gainer.

1) Do I really need the Creatine preworkout? If so what is the best one....and it HAS to taste decent.
2) Is the IsoFlex that I bought any good?
3) Does brand matter? I mean if there are 2 products and they both have the same amount of protein per scoop, is there any diff which I buy?

Remember, I'm not looking to be a bodybuilder or anything so an extra gram of protein here or there isn't the end of the world for me. I just want something that tastes good and is not expensive. BTW I paid 42 bucks for the 2 lbs bucket of Iso Flex. Im sure I can get it cheaper online or something. Any recommendations on where to get this stuff cheap. I live in Toronto.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

1. buy creatine monohydrate, its a tasteless powder and cheap, take 5g everyday...different people take it at different times, i don't think it really matters (i take mine postworkout)...you don't have to load at the beginning

2. don't know, most people recommend a low carb protein drink, so if it doesn't have a bunch of carbs or fat and tastes good then enjoy it...

3. there can be differences in the type of protein, whey isolate/concentrate/hydrolysate, casein, soy etc...go with a whey or whey/casein blend and you should be fine...might want to stay away from proteins developed in china [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

holy [censored]...42 bucks for 2lbs of protein? that is insane, don't buy...not sure what shipping to canada costs, but check out the bodybuilding.com store or optimum nutrition...there are also smaller places to get protein, t-nation, black star labs, cytosport etc...search around for stuff that you can get at a reasonable price...

edit: im not familiar w/ superpump whatever, but it sounds like an NO thing, in which case its crap, even if it's not NO it is still likely crap...don't buy weird supplements...stick to the basics, good diet w/ lots of protein and lift heavy stuffs...

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Yeah, $42 is way too much for two pounds, find a better deal. I got 5 lbs of Optimum Nutrition off amazon.com for $40 with free shipping.

As a beginner you really need to be focusing on the basics; you're not asking the right questions. Supplements are really only the tip of the iceberg. 90% of your results come from your diet and your workout.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Well, I'm not a complete beginner. I used to work out on and off for many years. It was always the same....I got motivated and worked out for about 3-4 months and then exams got in the way and I stop. Then I lose everything and then start again. I havent worked out in about 7-8 yrs now though.

As far as diet goes, I really can't eat 3000Cal per day. Thats why I'm turning to these supplements. Is that a bad idea?

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

you can eat 3k calories a day, just choose the right foods. drop the cardio in the gym.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

3k cals per day split over 6 meals shouldn't be that difficult...especially if you include healthy fats like olive oil and flaxseed oil...both are 120cal per tablespoon...things like mixed nuts and natty peanut butter are very calorie dense as well...

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I'm not a complete beginner. I used to work out on and off for many years. It was always the same....I got motivated and worked out for about 3-4 months and then exams got in the way and I stop. Then I lose everything and then start again. I havent worked out in about 7-8 yrs now though.

As far as diet goes, I really can't eat 3000Cal per day. Thats why I'm turning to these supplements. Is that a bad idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can absolutely eat 3000 calories per day. I've gone periods eating at least 6000 a day.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

correct me if im wrong, but if he cant eat 3k cals/day, then a weight gainer shake would be an excellent alternative right? especially since most of them are 600+ cals. just drink 1 or 2 of them a day and he will pretty easily get to 3000 cals. it will mostly be water weight but it seems like he doesn't care (doesn't want to be a bodybuilder).

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

superpump250 is a NO product. its not the same as creatine and not as good. it prolly contains some creatine but not enough

-Mike

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
correct me if im wrong, but if he cant eat 3k cals/day, then a weight gainer shake would be an excellent alternative right? especially since most of them are 600+ cals. just drink 1 or 2 of them a day and he will pretty easily get to 3000 cals. it will mostly be water weight but it seems like he doesn't care (doesn't want to be a bodybuilder).

[/ QUOTE ]

using shakes to increase cals is pretty standard and i imagine that most people on here use some kind of protein powder...

however, make your own shakes rather than buying weight gainer shakes...most of them will have a lot of sugar and most people just don't need that...instead, make your own with milk/water, protein, mixed nuts (almonds, walnuts), peanut butter, fruit, olive/flax oil etc...you can get tons of calories w/o bad sugars...

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

As an ex personal trainer and bodybuilder, I would say this: I see no reason to use creatine. It does have benefits but I believe they are so minimal as to be not worth the cost/gain. I have three supplements in my house. One, protein powder, is the one I would not go without. The others are a good testosterone booster and a good postwork out drink.

That said, there a lots of good preworkout energy drinks out there. Some with creatine, some without. I prefer to just down a Monster pre workout these days but your best bet might be to experiment untill you find one that works the best for you. Its like anything else. You need to learn what works for you.

Post workout, you do need protein. I recommend at least 40 grams within 1/2 hour of weight training. You also need to hit the carbs post workout as well. Get about 50 to 60 grams of high GI (sugary) carbs with your protein. Again, there are good post workout drinks with the right ratio of protein to carbs. Otherwise, add some honey to your protein drink. The two most improtant times for carbs are upon waking and especially post workout. You need to restore those depleted glycogen stores.

Your post is a little vag about your goals which makes it hard to answer some of your questions. Feel free to post back with some specifics as to your goals and I will gladly advise you on how to get there.

I have a link to the wholesale supplement store that I order my supplements from online. But, I'm not sure what the rules of the forum are pertaining to posting external links. Let me know and I'd be glad to post it.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Weight gainer shakes are v v large and v v thick.


If you have a smoothie place around, just buy one of their ex large protein shakes and it'll be about what you can expect. ~32 ounces of thick thick shake.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

If you just want to gain and you're a "hard gainer", thirddan is correct. Buy the cheap stuff, after loading for a week go down to just 5g a day, but it won't hurt you to take 10g (try in the morning and then right after your workout). Also if gaining is your only desire, drop the cardio, eat a ton of clean calories (limit carbs), when you see yourself getting fat put the cardio back in.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Oneeyedjak brought up some good points.

Slim being from Ontario I assume you went to GNC as that explains the prices. Next time go to SND or Popeyes its a lot cheaper and the employees are more helpful. Buying online is an option and the shipping is cheap, but personally I just go to the store.

I would hold off on the creatine as you don't really need it now. Concentrate on eating more, it may seem difficult but work at it. Then I would look in creatine down the road. Hell won't freeze over if you take it at different times but if its mixed in with NoXplode or whatever he sold you then take it before as they claim more energy for your workout otherwise if its just good 'ol monohydrate post-workout in your shake is what most prefer.

You should take your shake after your workout (PWO) and as oneyedjack said with a fast digesting carb. A great option for a shake is some dextrose and you can get it at bulk barn for next to nothing.

As far as weightgainers you seem light and could use the excess calories but I would concentrate more on your diet. Weightgainers are to 'supplement your diet' but taking them will help you increase your caloric intake.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
As an ex personal trainer and bodybuilder, I would say this: I see no reason to use creatine. It does have benefits but I believe they are so minimal as to be not worth the cost/gain. I have three supplements in my house. One, protein powder, is the one I would not go without. The others are a good testosterone booster and a good postwork out drink.

That said, there a lots of good preworkout energy drinks out there. Some with creatine, some without. I prefer to just down a Monster pre workout these days but your best bet might be to experiment untill you find one that works the best for you. Its like anything else. You need to learn what works for you.

Post workout, you do need protein. I recommend at least 40 grams within 1/2 hour of weight training. You also need to hit the carbs post workout as well. Get about 50 to 60 grams of high GI (sugary) carbs with your protein. Again, there are good post workout drinks with the right ratio of protein to carbs. Otherwise, add some honey to your protein drink. The two most improtant times for carbs are upon waking and especially post workout. You need to restore those depleted glycogen stores.

Your post is a little vag about your goals which makes it hard to answer some of your questions. Feel free to post back with some specifics as to your goals and I will gladly advise you on how to get there.

I have a link to the wholesale supplement store that I order my supplements from online. But, I'm not sure what the rules of the forum are pertaining to posting external links. Let me know and I'd be glad to post it.

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks for ue help OEJ,

My goal is to gain about 10-15 lbs of muscle. Right now I only weigh 165 and I'm 6ft tall. Funny thing is I just went to the dr today and she looked at a chart that says my weight is perfect for my height. I'm so skinny....I don't know is that chart is accurate. Anyways, I want to have an athletic, but not muscle bound look.....kinda like those guys on the cover of Men's Health but even less muscle bound. At the same time, I want to do cardio bc I feel its important at my age and also so i don't get a gut.

Is the carb drink a seperate drink I should buy....i.e. Do I need a carb drink and a protein drink after workouts?

Please post the link as to where I can get this stuff online . If u can't send me a pm. Thanks

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

slim, you can just add a scoop of dextrose or maltodextrin to your whey...they are just powdered sugar forms and you can buy them in bulk...

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

If you wanna get something better try Surge or use dpsnutrition.com or something of the sort to make a PWO. They'll likely taste pretty bad initially. Some people like them but they're weird.

Creatine is a must have IMO. It's ~20c a day to take. I'm sure you can derive a decent amount of benefit from it.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Nitro boosters are overpriced at any price, and useless. Stay away.

Creatine you need little of, and the body discards the extra anyway.

From LEF.org:

[ QUOTE ]
In normal healthy individuals, muscle creatine is replenished at a rate of approximately 2 grams a day.


[/ QUOTE ]

A good diet takes care of all or virtually all of that. So don't worry about powering down creatine, just topping it off. 5 grams is overkill. Anecdotally, I've shared the same many experience others have -- it seems to make getting out that last rep or two a lot easier. I can get that on one or two grams a day, and even less than daily.

Don't buy stuff on the recommendations of clerks, even buff or authoritative-sounding ones. They are salespeople, pure and simple. Even well-trained ones often have some nutty notions. Remember, they cater to nuts who like spooky home remedies and such every day, and they learn to indulge, encourage, or just shut up as people make worthless decisions. Don't open your checkbook without doing some reading on your own, not while under a salesman's expectant gaze.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Blarg,

I'm not sure I totally agree with that assessment from purely anecdotal evidence I've heard. I eat a fairly meat/seafood heavy diet and have a significant retention of water when I start taking creatine, which leads me that the 2+ grams I take in from diet aren't enough. In addition, from my limited experience with vegans/vegetarians they really rave about creatine cycling.

But if you feel you can take 2.5g a day or take 5g EOD or whatever fits you. You can drop the cost from 20c a day down from there.

Its just so cheap.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Yeah, the worst that happens is you waste a dime here or there, as the body just gets rid of excess. And the body goes back to its normal level of creatine creation after you stop taking it, so it's no big deal either way. It's a supplement well worth trying.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Funny thing is I just went to the dr today and she looked at a chart that says my weight is perfect for my height. I'm so skinny....I don't know is that chart is accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ignore the chart. Its based on a BMI (body mass index)and is not meant for anyone with any extra muscle mass. When you start gaining muscle, you will obviously gain weight. Even if you drop down some body fat %, that chart will tell you that you are overweight. So again, just ignore it.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, I want to have an athletic, but not muscle bound look.....kinda like those guys on the cover of Men's Health but even less muscle bound. At the same time, I want to do cardio bc I feel its important at my age and also so i don't get a gut.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are good goals. Now, to begin with, ignore the advice on all the calories you should be eating. You need to be eating small balanced meals every 2 1/2 to 3 hours throughout the day. I'm not going to get into the numbers and ratios of macronutrients (protein, carbs, fat) because I think its confusing for beginners and not all that necessary (although you do need a basic understanding of nutrition). The most important nutrient in building muscle is protein. Try to get a at least 1.5 grams/lb of bodyweight each day. In your case, that would be roughly 250 grams spread out over 5 or 6 meals. Just keep carbs moderate and simple. Brown rice, black beans, oatmeal, potatos, and things of that nature. Cut back on unhealthy fats. Don't be afraid to cook with olive oil or toss back some almonds or walnuts during the day. And, stay away from the junk food. Progress isn't made in the gym, its made outside the gym. Not sticking to a proper nutrition plan is the main culprit for most people who aren't achieving the results they want in the gym.

Do the cardio either upon waking on an empty stomach, or immediatly after weight training. At these times, you glycogen stores will be depleted and your body will be forced to tap into stored fat reserves to burn for fuel.

[ QUOTE ]
Is the carb drink a seperate drink I should buy....i.e. Do I need a carb drink and a protein drink after workouts?

[/ QUOTE ]

As Northern said, dextros is a cheap and extremely effective carb for post work out . That is what you will find in most of the drinks fomulated especially for post workout consumption. You can get dextrose or just mix some honey into your protein powder. You do need protein and carbs post workout. If you have the money to spend, there is a product called Mass Recovery which comes in a single serve bottle. I get them online by the case for about 70 bucks. Again, its just for simplicity sake if you want to spend the money on it.

I'm running a little long here so I'll just end it where I'm at. Any questions, feel free to ask.

Here is a link to the online supplement store I use.

Supplements

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

OEJ,

I can't imagine an "ex-personal trainer and bodybuilder" possibly discounting the use of Creatine. As Thremp pointed out, its pretty damn cheap, and it is widely considered one of, if not the #1, best supplement on the market. IMO, if you really wanna gain weight, creatine is a must.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine an "ex-personal trainer and bodybuilder" possibly discounting the use of Creatine. As Thremp pointed out, its pretty damn cheap, and it is widely considered one of, if not the #1, best supplement on the market. IMO, if you really wanna gain weight, creatine is a must.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not discounting creatine. It is beneficial. I just personally don't believe its needed by beginners. I do believe its over hyped and people take it hoping that its a miracle supplement. I've used plenty of creatine in the past and will more than likely use it again. But its not necessary to make good gains, IMO.

But, if a person is going to use it, I think the most effective way is by taking a supplement like Cell Tech which increases uptake greatly.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm not discounting creatine. It is beneficial. I just personally don't believe its needed by beginners. I do believe its over hyped and people take it hoping that its a miracle supplement. I've used plenty of creatine in the past and will more than likely use it again. But its not necessary to make good gains, IMO.

But, if a person is going to use it, I think the most effective way is by taking a supplement like Cell Tech which increases uptake greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% agreed. I see many people who can barely curl their shaker cup pounding back creatine and felxing their 12" gunzzz. A beginner should not worry about supplements, only a multi, whey and a PWO drink.

Edit - I am not discounting creatine, but too many people rely on it and think its a fix and will neglect aspects of their training and diet. Fill the leaks before you start using it, that;s all.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Slim, read my post from page 2

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oneeyedjak brought up some good points.

Slim being from Ontario I assume you went to GNC as that explains the prices. Next time go to SND or Popeyes its a lot cheaper and the employees are more helpful. Buying online is an option and the shipping is cheap, but personally I just go to the store.

I would hold off on the creatine as you don't really need it now. Concentrate on eating more, it may seem difficult but work at it. Then I would look in creatine down the road. Hell won't freeze over if you take it at different times but if its mixed in with NoXplode or whatever he sold you then take it before as they claim more energy for your workout otherwise if its just good 'ol monohydrate post-workout in your shake is what most prefer.

You should take your shake after your workout (PWO) and as oneyedjack said with a fast digesting carb. A great option for a shake is some dextrose and you can get it at bulk barn for next to nothing.

As far as weightgainers you seem light and could use the excess calories but I would concentrate more on your diet. Weightgainers are to 'supplement your diet' but taking them will help you increase your caloric intake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bought my protein from Nutrition House. Is Popey's or SND cheaper? I would imagine online would be cheapest.

What is the purpose of carbs after the workout? Isn't dextrose a form of sugar which is kinda like taking empty calories? I thought carbs is for energy, so why take it AFTER the workout? I'm sure my logic is flawed, please explain....

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Northern and OEJ,

Once I reach my goal, do I need to take protein supplements for the rest of my life if I want to maintain my weight/size? Or can I just do my regualr workout....

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

is this a good price for this product? does it taste ok?
http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx...589&topnav=

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the purpose of carbs after the workout? Isn't dextrose a form of sugar which is kinda like taking empty calories? I thought carbs is for energy, so why take it AFTER the workout? I'm sure my logic is flawed, please explain....

[/ QUOTE ]
The point of sugar post-workout is to replenish glycogen stores and spike insulin. But you're right, its great for energy, and so lots of people have a workout shake before as well as after.

Check out this thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=272067

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
is this a good price for this product? does it taste ok?
http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx...589&topnav=

[/ QUOTE ]
$36.50 for 2.2 pounds isn't much better than your original $42 for 2 pounds. Try to get 5 pounds for less than 60. You'll use it up quickly enough.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is the purpose of carbs after the workout? Isn't dextrose a form of sugar which is kinda like taking empty calories? I thought carbs is for energy, so why take it AFTER the workout? I'm sure my logic is flawed, please explain....


[/ QUOTE ]

Here is a link that explains the importance of post workout carbs in detail and easy to understand language.

postworkout carbs

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Once I reach my goal, do I need to take protein supplements for the rest of my life if I want to maintain my weight/size? Or can I just do my regualr workout....

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on how much protein is in your diet. If you are taking in .75 to 1 gram per lb of bodyweight, then you should be able to maintain throughout your life. When you reach your goals, cut back on the extra protein a bit. If, after two or three months, you find that you are maintianing well, cut back a little more. Its really a formula that is different for everyone. The high quantities are basicaly for mass building in which case its better to err on the side of taking in to much protein rather than not enough.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can't imagine an "ex-personal trainer and bodybuilder" possibly discounting the use of Creatine. As Thremp pointed out, its pretty damn cheap, and it is widely considered one of, if not the #1, best supplement on the market. IMO, if you really wanna gain weight, creatine is a must.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not discounting creatine. It is beneficial. I just personally don't believe its needed by beginners. I do believe its over hyped and people take it hoping that its a miracle supplement. I've used plenty of creatine in the past and will more than likely use it again. But its not necessary to make good gains, IMO.

But, if a person is going to use it, I think the most effective way is by taking a supplement like Cell Tech which increases uptake greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]Um OK now I agree with you. Also about the CellTech, even though I don't. Dry chalk in the mouth, wash down with water FTW.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

A lot will depend on your metabolism, too. For a terribly hard gainer, you may have to keep eating massive amounts of food to maintain the muscle, too, not just to build it.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the most effective way is by taking a supplement like Cell Tech which increases uptake greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]

No wonder you think creatine is a rip-off.

A post workout drink with malto and dextrose can accomplish what cell tech does at a fraction of the cost.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

This dextrose that u say I can buy at Bulk Barn.....what form does it come in? A powder? Is honey just as good? How many spoons per PWO drink?

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

Dextrose looks just like table sugar. Honey is not as good; I think it's mostly fructose which is metabolized differently. You want a 2 to 1 mass ratio of dextrose to protein, so like 90g dex and 45g protein or whatever. It'll be really sweet. Lots of people say to mix 50/50 dextrose and maltodextrin.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
No wonder you think creatine is a rip-off.

A post workout drink with malto and dextrose can accomplish what cell tech does at a fraction of the cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not just the dextrose in the Cell Tech that makes it my choice when I am using creatine. Its also contains alpha lipoic acid which mimicks insulin and can enhance muscle cell nutrient uptake and protein synthesis.

Mixing dextrose into into a protein shake with creatine is fine and cheap. Its just not my particular choice.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

onee,

Your body only handles a finite limit of creatine. For non-vegetarians you're typically only needing, as Blarg pointed out earlier, 1-2g to "top off" your tank. If you are like every normal human being there is no need to increase "uptake" of creatine.

While I think Jihad is wrong on almost everything, he's 100% correct on this issue. You buy bulk creatine monohydrate and take 5g of it per day until its gone. Its probably the most documented supplement and very standardized in how it should be taken.

slim,

I think you can look in the FAQ for a thread about PWO supplementation. If you can't find it, here's a quick and dirty:

1) 1/3 dextrose
2) 1/3 malto
3) 1/3 protei (fast acting, try to use hydrolysates though they take poopie)
4) Toss in some BCAAs
5) ?????
6) Profit

I personally have starting taking a half serving Pre workout and a full PWO. Its up to you how you do your stuff.

Re: protein drinks and weight gain drinks
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your body only handles a finite limit of creatine. For non-vegetarians you're typically only needing, as Blarg pointed out earlier, 1-2g to "top off" your tank. If you are like every normal human being there is no need to increase "uptake" of creatine.

[/ QUOTE ]


Insulin controls cellular energy management and creatine is a form of cellular energy.

Creatine is transported into skeletal muscle by specific "transported molecules" on the muscle surface. The ability of these transporters to load the muscle with creatine is enhanced by insulin. Therefore, in theory, any maneuver that increases the release of insulin should likewise increase the absorption of creatine by muscle. For this reason creatine is often taken with carbohydrates that greatly enhance insulin release, such as glucose and dextrose. Such carbohydrates are described as being highly glycemic. The more glycemic the sugar the more creatine is absorbed by our muscles.