Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

Open offer, to NR, Inso, and anyone else with an extensive post history advocating that evolotion is false.

If you will read and digest the contents of talkorigins, which would be a significant amount of effort on par with a good undergraduate level class, I imagine, I will pay you 5k.

Details subject to negotiation, and obviously some sort of test will be required, but the offer is not meant to be tricky in any way.

Anyone?

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Open offer, to NR, Inso, and anyone else with an extensive post history advocating that evolotion is false.

If you will read and digest the contents of talkorigins, which would be a significant amount of effort on par with a good undergraduate level class, I imagine, I will pay you 5k.

Details subject to negotiation, and obviously some sort of test will be required, but the offer is not meant to be tricky in any way.

Anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I make a gimmick account please please please? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] I promise I'll make a couple hundred anti-evolution posts first. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

What do we mean by evolution is false?

I typically fall into the group of posters that you mentioned, but I'm not sure where I'd land on this one.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do we mean by evolution is false?

I typically fall into the group of posters that you mentioned, but I'm not sure where I'd land on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suggest these criteria:

Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

or something along those lines. Its arahant's 5 grand, though, so I'll let him decide. I had no idea he was wealthy enough to make this challenge.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do we mean by evolution is false?

I typically fall into the group of posters that you mentioned, but I'm not sure where I'd land on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suggest these criteria:

Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

or something along those lines. Its arahant's 5 grand, though, so I'll let him decide. I had no idea he was wealthy enough to make this challenge.

[/ QUOTE ]

my first instict was to make a post like yours, saying i could start today if the offer will still be good in the future. then i wondered if i should ask him to stake me.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do we mean by evolution is false?

I typically fall into the group of posters that you mentioned, but I'm not sure where I'd land on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd suggest these criteria:

Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

or something along those lines. Its arahant's 5 grand, though, so I'll let him decide. I had no idea he was wealthy enough to make this challenge.

[/ QUOTE ]

my first instict was to make a post like yours, saying i could start today if the offer will still be good in the future. then i wondered if i should ask him to stake me.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I didnt already have a good staking deal I might have asked the same. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

It is my understanding that Not Ready is not adamantly opposed to the truth of full fledged evolution as long as God is somehow behind it. But perhaps I shouldn't say that since I don't want you to rescind an offer that he might very well accept.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure there is no empirical evidence for speciation through natural selection

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure there is no empirical evidence for speciation through natural selection

[/ QUOTE ]
It has been observed in a limited and mucky way (as is usual with speciation discussions) amongst drosophila amongst others. A geneticist friend of mine lent me a book on it back when Sharkey was around but it was too heavy going for me.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

Evolution is crap!

Make your check payable to . . .

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
What do we mean by evolution is false?

I typically fall into the group of posters that you mentioned, but I'm not sure where I'd land on this one.

[/ QUOTE ]

You very well may, that would be my impression.
This offer is completely legit, but obviously we need to flesh out the details.

No gimmick accounts, boys...
If vhawk, borodog, or anyone else would like to help with the suggestions on details and who is 'eligible' and how I should judge completion (once somebody has expressed genuine interest), It would be appreciated.

And of course, I'm willing to deposit funds with a long-time poster on whom we can agree.

I don't know what my intent is, beyond spreading knowledge, but of course, it would be nice if whoever completes this would discuss it here afterwards.

Also, I'll let the various longtime smp posters decide who is most worthy of this experiment in education should there be multiple takers...

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its arahant's 5 grand, though, so I'll let him decide. I had no idea he was wealthy enough to make this challenge.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than I need, less than I deserve [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Interested in helping? Is KUjustin a good guinea pig, ya think?

It was that 'brachiasourus' post from Inso that really got me going [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

dang...user post histories only go back 200 posts.
If you do want to take this on, let me know and I will look up your posts.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

arahant, pm sent.

tl;dr: I'm a fundamentalist Christian who hasn't ruled out evolution, but generally doesn't consider it a sufficient explanation for the creation around him. I also have too much time and not enough money.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

You can pay a horse to go to water...

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can pay a horse to go to water...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm well aware.
And even if you could make them drink, it won't change the world. I think the subject of my post says it all.

Though I am extremely interested in finding out how this goes. I think (or hope) it will be educational for all.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

Interesting idea. The only way to properly test is a set of detailed questions answered in real time over AIM (say with a 1 minute time limit), and a set of pre written answers for a third party to check the responses against. You could also do in a public chat room where we can watch [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

It'd be fun to see someone slightly more kooky than Justin, but it's your money of course.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

I'd really like to do this, I don't really believe evolution is false though. I'm not exactly "against" evolution, so much as know absolutely nothing about the science. I might have the most absurd collection of posts in SMP history, though, so that might be a point in my favor.

I am busto, and would be willing to start cracking away immediately and finish in a (relatively) quick amount of time. arahant: help me create my first intelligent post(s) in my 2+2 history! please to be considering?

Side note: estimates on time to complete the readings?

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

i probably don't post here enough/fundamentalist enough to qualify, but i would be willing to read up more on evolution.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

Hahaha, I'm flattered to find out that I'm not considered a complete kook on this board.

Whenever the topic of non-believers going to heaven comes up I feel like the sentiment is quite the opposite. Maybe you all just think I'm an a-hole rather than crazy though.

Anyway, good to find out I'm sane. Maybe if I can get 10 offers like this I can use the 50k to take on DSklans. I'm pretty sure I can ace the ACT math in half time with a little practice.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'll let the various longtime smp posters decide who is most worthy of this experiment in education should there be multiple takers...

[/ QUOTE ]

You should spend your 5k educating kids who still have a chance at becoming an intelligent, rational human being. Why waste time and money with lost cases such as NR?

Of course then again if it's just an experiment I don't know why you used the word "worthy".

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

the kalam argument. Boom goes the dynamite. where's my 5k?

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

I have to devour the entire Talk Origins website and regurgitate the talking points on demand?

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/outline.html

I think to make this easier on both of us, all of the test questions would have to come from a page directly linked here.

I'm not afraid of the truth, if you can provide it.

Despite what you all may think of me, I do not make my statements due to idiocy or perhaps "blind faith in the almighty God, ALLELUIA AMEN!" In fact, I tested in the 99th percentile among my peers all my life. As I'm sure many of you did too, or you wouldn't spend your time browsing forums such as these. The difference between you and I is simply perspective.



What is the time limit being imposed on me for this challenge? I have a wife and three kids. And like most homeowners in Wisconsin, these first few warm weekends are used to tend to things that require attention around the house. In addition, my daughter's 1st birthday is on Monday, so I daresay I probably won't be able to devote much time to Talk Origins this weekend. And I haven't looked around the site but there certainly are a [censored] of links on that site map. So...

I'm willing to do this. It gives me a perfect $5000 excuse to increase the scope of my understanding on the issue.

I would like a written outline from you on the requirements for payoff though. Who knows this guy well enough to vouch for his ability to dish out $5k on an internet challenge?


EDIT: I just clicked a few of those links. There are entire BOOKS typed out on this site. This is quite an undertaking. However I see that they have Darwin's book "The Origin of Species" on there. I've been meaning to read that but couldnt justify putting $6.95 in someone's pocket for it.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Believe there is no evidence or it is impossible to support speciation through natural selection

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure there is no empirical evidence for speciation through natural selection

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its arahant's 5 grand, though, so I'll let him decide. I had no idea he was wealthy enough to make this challenge.

[/ QUOTE ]

More than I need, less than I deserve [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. Interested in helping? Is KUjustin a good guinea pig, ya think?

It was that 'brachiasourus' post from Inso that really got me going [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Is KUJustin a good candidate? Not sure...you want to lose this bet or not? I wouldn't take KU's action, just because my general impression of his posting is that he is more intellectually honest than some. I don't know if that is good or bad, though, since I don't really know your motivation. If your goal is to spend 5k to convince someone of evolution, he is probably a good candidate. If your goal is to dangle 5k in an attempt to prove someone is a hack, I think you can find more fertile ground.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to devour the entire Talk Origins website and regurgitate the talking points on demand?

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/outline.html

I think to make this easier on both of us, all of the test questions would have to come from a page directly linked here.

I'm not afraid of the truth, if you can provide it.

Despite what you all may think of me, I do not make my statements due to idiocy or perhaps "blind faith in the almighty God, ALLELUIA AMEN!" In fact, I tested in the 99th percentile among my peers all my life. As I'm sure many of you did too, or you wouldn't spend your time browsing forums such as these. The difference between you and I is simply perspective.



What is the time limit being imposed on me for this challenge? I have a wife and three kids. And like most homeowners in Wisconsin, these first few warm weekends are used to tend to things that require attention around the house. In addition, my daughter's 1st birthday is on Monday, so I daresay I probably won't be able to devote much time to Talk Origins this weekend. And I haven't looked around the site but there certainly are a [censored] of links on that site map. So...

I'm willing to do this. It gives me a perfect $5000 excuse to increase the scope of my understanding on the issue.

I would like a written outline from you on the requirements for payoff though. Who knows this guy well enough to vouch for his ability to dish out $5k on an internet challenge?


EDIT: I just clicked a few of those links. There are entire BOOKS typed out on this site. This is quite an undertaking. However I see that they have Darwin's book "The Origin of Species" on there. I've been meaning to read that but couldnt justify putting $6.95 in someone's pocket for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny that you constantly distance yourself from the embarrassment that is your religious brethren, the creationists, and yet, when pushed, you consistently take a creationist position.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

I do this because you'd like nothing more than to lump me in with the evangelical crackpots from the south who you see stock footage of any time someone wants to descredit Christianity.

You know the type. They start yelling and screaming and saying ALLELUIA whenever anyone says something that goes against what they hear from the pulpit every Sunday. They're usually not showered and have a terrible drawl sometimes to the point of not being able to understand wtf they're saying.

I have all my teeth, I avoid using double negatives in every day speech, and I can point out my own state on a map. I realize that this bothers you, but it is what it is.

I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do this because you'd like nothing more than to lump me in with the evangelical crackpots from the south who you see stock footage of any time someone wants to descredit Christianity.

You know the type. They start yelling and screaming and saying ALLELUIA whenever anyone says something that goes against what they hear from the pulpit every Sunday. They're usually not showered and have a terrible drawl sometimes to the point of not being able to understand wtf they're saying.

I have all my teeth, I avoid using double negatives in every day speech, and I can point out my own state on a map. I realize that this bothers you, but it is what it is.

I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, but no one said anything about the universe. Do you believe it to be the best explanation for the creation of Earth, or the creation of life, or the creation of the diversity of life?

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Ok, but no one said anything about the universe. Do you believe it to be the best explanation for the creation of Earth, or the creation of life, or the creation of the diversity of life?

[/ QUOTE ]

The universe and ALL that is contained within it.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ok, but no one said anything about the universe. Do you believe it to be the best explanation for the creation of Earth, or the creation of life, or the creation of the diversity of life?

[/ QUOTE ]

The universe and ALL that is contained within it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you believe that there are processes at work in the universe, that work unattended, or do you believe that god pushes each atom around to their new assigned place?

luckyme

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure there is no empirical evidence for speciation through natural selection



I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok post it. The fruit fly thing said that after 1/2 flies fed sugar and 1/2 flies fed starch for generations they preferred to mate with their "own" kind, but it didn't say that it was impossible for a sugar to reproduce with a starch, so I don't think that qualifies as speciation.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]

If you will read and digest the contents of talkorigins, which would be a significant amount of effort on par with a good undergraduate level class, I imagine, I will pay you 5k.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not anti-evolutionist, per se. I've even stated I have no problem with micro-evolution, i.e., things change. I have serious doubts about, but don't outright deny, one common ancestor and human evolution.

I could certainly use the money. If the test is only about what's on talk origin I'm game. I have no science worth mentioning so I couldn't pass anything on anthropology or biology,for instance, that isn't on that site.

When I finish this you could partner up with DS to send me for my Ph.D.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this created in 6 days = best explanation

All of this created over billions of years = not best explanation

Really? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

the problem isnt the number of years or days, but the fact that the universe is finite directly contradicts evolution.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Ok, but no one said anything about the universe. Do you believe it to be the best explanation for the creation of Earth, or the creation of life, or the creation of the diversity of life?

[/ QUOTE ]

The universe and ALL that is contained within it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you believe that there are processes at work in the universe, that work unattended, or do you believe that god pushes each atom around to their new assigned place?

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I believe the Universe is largely functioning under its own power.

A God who had to control each atom would be a God that needed to find a better hobby.

And before you ask, I do NOT believe that God used evolution to create man.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this created in 6 days = best explanation

All of this created over billions of years = not best explanation

Really? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Not created over billions of years. Manifested on its own out of nothingness. To create something would require a creator. Evolution denies a creator of any kind.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[/ QUOTE ]

But do you believe that there are processes at work in the universe, that work unattended, or do you believe that god pushes each atom around to their new assigned place?



[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it make more since for God to create laws that govern his creation instead of doing it all himself.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this created in 6 days = best explanation

All of this created over billions of years = not best explanation

Really? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a terrible post.

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a creationist because I believe it to be the very best explanation of our universe. Not because God will smite me if I don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of this created in 6 days = best explanation

All of this created over billions of years = not best explanation

Really? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Not created over billions of years. Manifested on its own out of nothingness. To create something would require a creator. Evolution denies a creator of any kind.

[/ QUOTE ]

What created the creator?

Re: Money. Bored. Evolution.
 

[ QUOTE ]

What created the creator?


[/ QUOTE ]


How did evolution evolve?