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-   -   Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=448513)

Phil153 07-11-2007 12:07 PM

Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
There's been a lot of requests for this so I'm releasing an old version (free, obviously) while I continue with improvements. When the last version was out a lot of 2+2ers requested an FAQ so here it is:

What is PokerEV?

It's a Sklansky bucks calculator and game analysis tool that runs off your PokerTracker database. It supports Holdem, Omaha and Omaha Hi/Lo ring games. There is no tournament support yet.

Is it free?

Yes. I'm working on a database backend and improved filters/analysis but until that's done (at least a month away) it'll be free. I originally wrote this for my own use and have other things to do beside programming, so if I don't get it to a stage where I'm happy selling it, it'll remain free.

What sites are supported?
Party, Stars, Full Tilt and iPoker

What's it used for?
Mainly to analyze your game and provide hard to get feedback and filters not found in PokerTracker. A lot of people use it as luck grapher though.

So this will tell me if I'm lucky, right
Yes and no. It will calculate what you should have won based on all in hands, and compare it with what you have won. This represents a fairly large component of luck for NL games (but not the only part). You can still get heatered or coolered in terms of getting good/bad cards and situations. Think of it as a tool to cut through some of the variance and get a better idea of your overall play during a session.

How do I know it's accurate?
Anyone can verify the accuracy of the calcs/graphs by doing their own calculations of the hand history and comparing it to PokerEV for each entry. Preflop enumeration is monte carlo for speed, which is an approximation that will be slightly higher or lower than the true value, but it doesn't affect cumulative results (such as the graphs) and barely affects each individual result. If a lot of money goes in preflop, you may have NetSB reported as $99.54 instead of $98.33, for example.

The old version calculated Sklansky Bucks based on all hands (not just all-ins), but for some players this caused problems with accuracy as the set of available showdown hands was skewed by either very tight or very aggressive play. The calculations are still done on all hands for the purpose of game analysis, but the "Luck Graphs" tabs contain only all-in adjustments, so you can know they're not skewed.

How do I use it?
The best way is to load it up after each session and go through all of your hands. If you felt you got outdrawn a lot, you can check this with the graphs to see if you actually did. The analysis tab is laid out with hand type and Net Sklansky bucks. I usually click on the NetSB column to order it and review the big mistakes in the hand replayer. You can also review by hand type and use the comprehensive filters to review particular situations.

When looking at longer term results, the power of the program is in the filters. For example, to examine all flops where you have only TPTK and put significant money in, use the following filters:

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5166/filters2ib3.gif

All the data has this filter applied, and you can view graphs of this information or replay them one after another in the replayer:

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/2...titled1ty8.jpg

The graphs show hard to get aggregate information in more detail. For example, this graph allows you to examine known equity vs $ put in pot on each street:

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/1492/netsber3.jpg

I've clearly got a leak getting involved with one pair hands on the flop.

Is there a timeout on the software
Yes, one month from now. However, a new version will be available before then with additional features.

Known issues:
- The stats tab computes stats from non all-in hands as well, so don't rely on the results for luck analysis. The "Luck Graphs" tab is all-in only
- There are various features which aren't finished and some obvious things lacking here and there.
- Due to the structure of the PokerTracker database, importing large numbers of hands is very inefficient and could cause memory problems. I'll be fixing this by storing results in a database, but for now anything over 50-100K hands at a time could cause problems, depending on your machine.
- Omaha preflop values in the replayer are approximations, accurate to around 0.5%. Omaha calcs take around 5sec/hand otherwise. All holdem equities in the replayer are correct.

I'm not providing support for this as I don't have time at the moment, but I will fix obvious bugs and help out if you get stuck.

Download is here:
http://www.pokerevsoftware.com/download.html

beaster 07-11-2007 12:17 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Been patiently waiting for this. Thank you thank you thank you! This will tide (most of) us over nicely until the full version.

runstop 07-11-2007 12:24 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 

Wow, looks great! Thanks

Paul B. 07-11-2007 12:29 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Yesssssssssss.

cmyr 07-11-2007 01:01 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
shweeet, great work... my afternoon just got booked solid.

cmyr 07-11-2007 01:37 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
I'm getting an error everytime I try to filter hands by site played, and pokerEV is importing hands I play at Prima, even though you've said that prima isn't supported. Is this going to screw up any of the calculations? I can't play the prima hands in the replayer, but they seem to show up fairly well in analysis.

Phil153 07-11-2007 01:38 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
I just uploaded the fix. Anyone who downloaded the old version should get it.

guaranteedBluff 07-11-2007 01:49 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Thanks Phil!

stephan 07-11-2007 01:53 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Great work, will try it out when i get back from work, but looks sweet. Will there always be a free version available?

iwannawon 07-11-2007 02:40 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question since it isn't really specific to pokerEV but I just read your faq and saw it's for ring games only. In general terms what's the difference (software-wise)? I recently got pt too and saw the auto rate features are only for ring games. In tourneys, I realize the blinds go up in comparision but as long as there are filters, etc to keep similar data together wouldn't the same tools work and be helpful? Even if results begin to skew at the bubble or later stages, at least to review the first several rounds would be better than nothing wouldn't it? Probably more so for mtt's than stt's. Thanks.

aShtk 07-11-2007 05:17 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
What are the graph options EW, ETW, etc for ?

Thanks a lot, this program kicks ass.

Jim14Qc 07-11-2007 05:24 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
no [censored] wonder I'm in such a breakeven streak... HOw unstandard is this?

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/9081/unluckon2.jpg
Shot at 2007-07-11[/list]

EDIT: while writing this post, I lost AA vs 67 on a 6TT board AI on flop.

EDIT2: sorry for rant.

hypermegachi 07-11-2007 07:22 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
sorry for the newb question, what does this graph mean?
http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/8590/graphof0.png

sklansky bucks = $ i should have won

i'm not sure what the difference between the other 3 lines are...

deflY 07-11-2007 07:30 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
thanks for this

hypermegachi 07-11-2007 08:07 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
reading through the old thread, here's the most relevant info i could find.

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is definitely needed. There's actually a truckload of stats coming that will confuse everyone even more Grin Grin

The stats panel is just something I threw together quickly for the private beta. It's going to get a major upgrade. To answer your questions:

- ETW is "Expected Total Winnings". This line represents what you'd win (i.e. in your account) if you weren't running hot or cold on your showdowns.
- Equity adjusted means the same as above.
- When won w/o showdown is red, it means you're losing more to folds and blinds than you're making from bluffing.
- PIP means "Put in Pot"
- The %+EV when PIP > 0 line gives an indicator of how many positive equity situations you're running into. It's meant to be used in combination with the filters.

The power of this program is really in the filters. All of the above stats will vary greatly based on flop/turn hands, whether you bet, call or raise, your position, and so on. The idea of the stats tab is that you use the filters to find spots where you're consistently putting money in bad.

I realize this stuff is a bit involved and I'll be making it easier in future, but even now there's an amazing amount of information that can be gleaned about your play if you fiddle around with things a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

does this mean that it's possible to have "Won W/O Showdown" in the green?

SteveyJay 07-11-2007 09:48 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
this means im running really bad, correct?

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8526/3weeksevhc5.jpg

Phil153 07-11-2007 09:54 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
SteveyJay,

To see how you're running, it's better to use the "Luck Graphs" tab. These are calculated purely from all in hands and are unaffected by skew.

The graphs on the "Game Analysis Graphs" tab are for game analysis (such as seeing the ratio of showdown/non showdown/SB winnings) and can be skewed depending on how you play. They won't give an accurate indication of how well you run.

SteveyJay 07-11-2007 10:02 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Ah i see, thanks.

Do i have to upload my database again every time i close and restart the program or is it possible to save the db somehow?


Your program looks great anyway. thanks for the effort [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ImsaKidd 07-11-2007 10:56 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Damn I love this program Phil.


Before a zillion requests come in:

Compare RED and BLUE lines or GREEN and TEAL lines to see how you're running.

If Blue is below Red (or Green below Teal), the difference is how bad you've run. If Blue is above red, thats how hot youve run.

Tiki 07-12-2007 05:21 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
This is great Phil. Your app. is really slick. Very nice indeed and thank you.

Sigurd 07-12-2007 10:01 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
WUHUUU!

Jehaim 07-12-2007 10:30 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
Before a zillion requests come in:

Compare RED and BLUE lines or GREEN and TEAL lines to see how you're running.

If Blue is below Red (or Green below Teal), the difference is how bad you've run. If Blue is above red, thats how hot youve run.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SteveyJay,

To see how you're running, it's better to use the "Luck Graphs" tab. These are calculated purely from all in hands and are unaffected by skew.

The graphs on the "Game Analysis Graphs" tab are for game analysis (such as seeing the ratio of showdown/non showdown/SB winnings) and can be skewed depending on how you play. They won't give an accurate indication of how well you run.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, good to hear, because the "Game Analysis Graphs" show me running SICK hot, but the "Luck Graphs" shows me running normal. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thought I had a downswing from hell coming. But I guess i won't. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

The "Net Run Line"" on the 'Luck Graphs' tab is awesome.

Robbie Roo 07-12-2007 11:12 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
If my all in luck graph is down 16 buyins over 14K hands, I run uber bad yes?

advis0r 07-12-2007 11:29 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
if it says € (euros) does it really mean euros or USD?
if it is USD i get pretty much the same result for my db with my AllinCalc and your pokerev luck tab [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

ImsaKidd 07-12-2007 01:16 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
If my all in luck graph is down 16 buyins over 14K hands, I run uber bad yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just compare expectation to actual.

CruNKinTILT 07-12-2007 02:12 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
i can't seem to find out how to make the teal line show up...

ImsaKidd 07-12-2007 02:16 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
i can't seem to find out how to make the teal line show up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Game anlysis > ETW box

CruNKinTILT 07-12-2007 02:25 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i can't seem to find out how to make the teal line show up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Game anlysis > ETW box

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a "SW" "SB" "TW" and "Box" but no "ETW"

NorthView 07-12-2007 04:31 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i can't seem to find out how to make the teal line show up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Game anlysis > ETW box

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a "SW" "SB" "TW" and "Box" but no "ETW"

[/ QUOTE ]

Phil153 07-12-2007 04:40 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
The removed ETW box is deliberate, as mentioned on the download page.

The "game analysis graphs" are based on SB calcs for all hands/streets (not just allin), which as mentioned above can be skewed for some people and make you look lucky/unlucky where you're not. I removed it to avoid confusion.

K䲰䮥n 07-12-2007 04:52 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Since I switched to iPoker 11k hands ago I'm running 7BIs too low (according to all-ins). Rigged.

EDIT: Thanks for this tool! Confidence booster indeed...

EGO 07-12-2007 09:01 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
I'm still getting the hang of this program, but I do have a couple of questions.

On the luck graph, over my last 7500 hands the Total Winnings and Total Expected Winnings graphs are pretty close to mirror images of each other. This means pretty standard luck, right?

What exactly does "Equity Adjusted Winnings" mean, and why is this value different in the Luck Graph and the Analysis Graph, while Actual winnings stay the same?

The Statistics tab has me boggled.

I'll screw around with this program a bit more, and mention offhand that I really like it. This will cut out quite a bit of offline drudgery figuring out EV and equity.

dansmo 07-13-2007 12:42 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Phil,

do I understand it right, that this cannot be used for FL?

ImsaKidd 07-13-2007 02:00 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
Phil,

do I understand it right, that this cannot be used for FL?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont see why not.

NoMeansYes_ 07-14-2007 11:20 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
THANKYOU PHIL

Phil153 07-14-2007 11:45 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
Phil,

do I understand it right, that this cannot be used for FL?

[/ QUOTE ]
The all in calculator won't work for fixed limit, but the SB calcs are still useful for game analysis. The point of the program is more session review than luck finding anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
if it says € (euros) does it really mean euros or USD?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ugh, I thought I'd fixed the localization problem. The calculations are done on the PT data which is in USD, it's just that symbol on the graph that is wrong. I'll fix this at some point. For now just ignore the € symbol.
[ QUOTE ]
if it is USD i get pretty much the same result for my db with my AllinCalc and your pokerev luck tab

[/ QUOTE ]
Always a good sign!

[ QUOTE ]
On the luck graph, over my last 7500 hands the Total Winnings and Total Expected Winnings graphs are pretty close to mirror images of each other. This means pretty standard luck, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
As far as all-ins go, yep.

[ QUOTE ]
What exactly does "Equity Adjusted Winnings" mean, and why is this value different in the Luck Graph and the Analysis Graph, while Actual winnings stay the same?

[/ QUOTE ]
Actual winnings is just what you won over the period. The analysis graph uses SBs calced over all streets, which can be a bit skewed for certain styles of play. The "Luck Graphs" tab uses all-ins only, which can't be skewed. As the "luck graphs" tab is restricted to luck in all-ins, it will have less variance than the one on the analysis tab since it's only calculating a subset of the same data.

[ QUOTE ]
THANKYOU PHIL

[/ QUOTE ]
You're welcome! Apologies for cutting it earlier - it'll be available from now on.

Kraada 07-14-2007 12:39 PM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
This is really sweet.

One recommendation: can we get a way to select hands from one date to another?

I'd like to see, for example, how I ran in 2006. However, having it go since jan 01 2006 until today throws an out of memory error.

Other than that, beautiful program; I look forward to purchasing it once it gets out of Beta.

K

bhudson 07-15-2007 11:07 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
Phil: thank you, great program. Couple of requests:
1) Databases tab: typing in the player name directly (with auto complete)
2) Filters: specify bet size as a percentage of the pot - (preferably on the relevant street)

Roger Mainfield 07-16-2007 12:41 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
My won without showdowns is about -2000, and won with showdowns is +4300. Is this ratio about normal?

ImsaKidd 07-16-2007 01:30 AM

Re: Sklansky Bucks Calculator: PokerEV
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is really sweet.

One recommendation: can we get a way to select hands from one date to another?

I'd like to see, for example, how I ran in 2006. However, having it go since jan 01 2006 until today throws an out of memory error.

Other than that, beautiful program; I look forward to purchasing it once it gets out of Beta.

K

[/ QUOTE ]

Theres a "between" filter


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