Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Although I have never been to Europe, I have heard that several contries have a lower legal drinking age than in the US. I have also heard that there is less alcohol abuse in those contries.

Is this because they are more intelligent than US citizens? More responsible than US?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

I think this has more to do with variance than anything else.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

It's not the case that European are smarter or more responsible with alcohol so they have a low drinking age.

It's since they have a low drinking age people are more responsible with alcohol.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]

It's since they have a low drinking age people are more responsible with alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are they smarter than us and/or more responsible than us for having a low drinking age? If not, how else do you explain it?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Everybody knew that guy in high school who had the early curfew and was in bed by the time all the fun things came out at parties that then dropped out of college because he was too busy smoking pot on his couch all day. Or getting drunk. Or the virgin girl with the overprotective parents that does the entire college football squad. It really comes down to psychology, and if something is banned it makes it more attractive. Then they go too far with it because they were never taught responsiblity, and haven't had adequate time to find acceptable levels on their own. They just jump head first into something and often overdo a good thing.

Banning is the easy way, because you don't have to have nuanced discussions with kids about acceptable levels, tolerance, learning your body, etc when you can just say "it's evil, you can't do it until you're some arbitrary age". Something about a country founded by puritans makes it more likely to ban, instead of teaching responsibility.

Anyways, IMHO a culture that doesn't preach "the evils of alcohol", but instead allows a kid to have a couple glasses of wine inside the home and treats it as no big deal will have less cases of abuse.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

It has to do with social norms. In many European countries, wine and beer is served with dinner from a young age, often the early teens. It never has a chance to gain the mystique of the illicit.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

What's a 'European'?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What's a 'European'?

[/ QUOTE ]

A citizen of the nation of Europe.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Inventions is what you got to go by. The inventions that matter to me is techonlogy so...

Computer Technology that would be USA (intel, IBM, Sun & microsoft). Electronics Japan. (sony toshiba motorola sanyo....)

What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

I know I am. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Visit the UK/Ireland and then tell me Europeans are more intelligent or responsible about alcohol than Americans.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Visit the UK/Ireland and then tell me Europeans are more intelligent or responsible about alcohol than Americans.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do these countries polices and practices compare to the other contries' policies and practices in eastern and western europe with respect to alcohol?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Just wait two more generations. Europistan will be comfortably under Sharia and, well, no worries.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Although I have never been to Europe, I have heard that several contries have a lower legal drinking age than in the US. I have also heard that there is less alcohol abuse in those contries.

[/ QUOTE ]

Err... what? In Finland you see tons of teenagers (as in 12-17...) drinking in the parks every day and no one cares... I've never heard of such a thing happening in the States, from what I've heard you got like police raids when 19-year olds have home parties.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

WTF ??? i know several guys from UK and they say alcohol abuse is absurd there.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

I just googled countries legal drinking ages:

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html

It seems there are a handful of countries with no minimum age, a few more than that with an age of 16 (some with exceptions, albeit unspecificed), a boatload of countries with the age 18, south korea 19, Japan and Iceland 20, and the land of the free stands alone at the highest minimum age of 21 LOL

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

And we invented the first programable computer during world war two.

Anyway, as someone alluded to there is a lot of achohol problems in the UK - so count us out on this one issue of Europe > USA.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

What is a post that this has to do with?
Not the OP


PS: A european didn't invent the internet.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

What is a post that this has to do with?
Not the OP


PS: A european didn't invent the internet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a direct reply to Rock69 or whatever he is called.

Ps, i was pretty sure the internet was invented by the US military as a means of communications during the cold war. I found this link after 1 min of googling - http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventednet.html.
Pps, Al Gore invented the internet [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Ppps, the world wide web was created by two Europeans apparently, or at least whilst they worked for a european body - http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventedweb.html

Cant be bothered to research further, this is unrelated to the OP.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

europeans abuse alcohol less because their standards for abuse are higher. also, 9th graders in many eurpean countries drink like frat boys in america.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Many cultures generally in or near Southern Europe allow and encourage responsible drinking of alcohol at a very young age (e.g., wine with dinner) but heavily censor excessive drinking (e.g., making a fool of yourself with drunken behavior at a family party).

OTOH, many cultures in Northern Europe are sort of the opposite, at least in my experience [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] (I'm half Polish).

~ Rick

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Many cultures generally in or near Southern Europe allow and encourage responsible drinking of alcohol at a very young age (e.g., wine with dinner) but heavily censor excessive drinking (e.g., making a fool of yourself with drunken behavior at a family party).

[/ QUOTE ]They do not actually "encourage" it; they condone it, in general. In more religious environments (eg Catholic households), this is not even the case.

Southern Europe produces rather readily wine, due to the abundance of grapes. Wine is a lighter drink than what Anglo-Saxons, Slavs and Nords usually imbibe. This steers culture towards milder forms of drinking, I'd guess.

[ QUOTE ]
OTOH, many cultures in Northern Europe are sort of the opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]Colder climate--> rather more alcohol drinking.

Warmer climate--> rather less alcohol drinking.

Mickey Brausch

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's not the case that European are smarter or more responsible with alcohol so they have a low drinking age.

It's since they have a low drinking age people are more responsible with alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think it's more like : In America if you get nailed with underage drinking your parents yell at you. And you lose your Drivers Licence for a while.

In Europe the Polezi and other police groups would just beat the living hell out of you. Good Deterrent

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

What is a post that this has to do with?
Not the OP


PS: A european didn't invent the internet.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a direct reply to Rock69 or whatever he is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I see that, but that doesn't mean it has anything to do with the question.

[ QUOTE ]
Ps, i was pretty sure the internet was invented by the US military as a means of communications during the cold war. I found this link after 1 min of googling - http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventednet.html.
Pps, Al Gore invented the internet [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Too bad you didn't do that "one minute" of "research" before you posted.

[ QUOTE ]
Ppps, the world wide web was created by two Europeans apparently, or at least whilst they worked for a european body - http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/history/inventedweb.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course; TBL is british. But the web isn't the internet.

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Cant be bothered to research further, this is unrelated to the OP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. That was my point. Not sure why that prevents you from actually examining your claims, though.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Indeed, the web isnt the internet.

My point is the guy prolly thought that when he heard the web was created by an english dude (as you say) he thought it meant the internet.

My link gives a fair amount of info on who was responsible for various 'bits' of the internet.

Al Gore obv didnt invent the internet, hence the smiley. He didnt claim to either.

He was one of the more active campaigners for its use however.

So are you being a dick on purpose, or is it just in your nature.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not the case that European are smarter or more responsible with alcohol so they have a low drinking age.

It's since they have a low drinking age people are more responsible with alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think it's more like : In America if you get nailed with underage drinking your parents yell at you. And you lose your Drivers Licence for a while.

In Europe the Polezi and other police groups would just beat the living hell out of you. Good Deterrent

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to have a very strange view of what Europe is like.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

And we invented the first programable computer during world war two.

Anyway, as someone alluded to there is a lot of achohol problems in the UK - so count us out on this one issue of Europe > USA.

[/ QUOTE ]

The UK isnt the same thing as Europe. I'm sure that alcohol problems in some US states are higher than in say Sweden does that make this issue in on EU > USA?

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Many cultures generally in or near Southern Europe allow and encourage responsible drinking of alcohol at a very young age (e.g., wine with dinner) but heavily censor excessive drinking (e.g., making a fool of yourself with drunken behavior at a family party).

[/ QUOTE ]They do not actually "encourage" it; they condone it, in general. In more religious environments (eg Catholic households), this is not even the case.

Southern Europe produces rather readily wine, due to the abundance of grapes. Wine is a lighter drink than what Anglo-Saxons, Slavs and Nords usually imbibe. This steers culture towards milder forms of drinking, I'd guess.

[ QUOTE ]
OTOH, many cultures in Northern Europe are sort of the opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]Colder climate--> rather more alcohol drinking.

Warmer climate--> rather less alcohol drinking.

Mickey Brausch

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any facts on the warmer/colder climate theory? IIRC, alcohol abuse is more widespread in the southern part of Europe than in the northern part.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee

Sorry i mispoke - yeah i meant the web

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Visit the UK/Ireland and then tell me Europeans are more intelligent or responsible about alcohol than Americans.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do these countries polices and practices compare to the other contries' policies and practices in eastern and western europe with respect to alcohol?

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher drinking ages, more restricted bar opening times. But yeah, the British and Irish drink like lunatics. I've heard that the French actually consume more alcohol than the English. But the difference is they space it out, whereas the English binge drink and then fight and vomit in the streets.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

I'll refrain from answering the question as posed in the topic. As for the drinking bit I'm pretty sure that there is a strong correlation between alcohol "abuse" and which beverage is the drink of tradition.

I.e. countries where hard liquer is the traditional alcoholic beverage (russia, poland, nordic countries etc) in general have more problems than beerdrinking countries like britain or germany who in turn have more problems than winecountries like france, spain or italy.

It should also be noted that previously northern europe has been typicaly "binge drinking" and southern europe been "everyday drinking". However it seems like increased european integration is leeding to both becoming BOTH in the future.

/Bjorn

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

I lived in England for 18 years and have lived the past 8 years in the US. One thing that really bugs the hell out of me is when someone posts a vid on youtube of an American doing something really stupid and then a bunch of Euros will say: "OMG, Americans are so f-ing stupid". My family and friends in England also seem under the impression that Americans are in general stupider than Europeans. Hell, there's probably a lot of Americans who think Americans are dumber than Europeans.

As someone who has lived in both places I am personally convinced that the distribution of general intelligence is virtually exactly the same. Dumb Americans just seem to get a lot more exposure in the media and on the internet than dumb Europeans. It also doesn't help when the president can't string a sentence together.

For the alcohol issue - binge drinking and alcohol abuse are rampant in the UK (I can't really speak for the whole of Europe). I have no evidence for this but it wouldn't surprise me if Europeans drank significantly more per capita than Americans.

Drinking in Europe
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Colder climate--> rather more alcohol drinking.

Warmer climate--> rather less alcohol drinking.



[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have any facts on the warmer/colder climate theory?

[/ QUOTE ] Pure speculation, on my part.

I would think, colder climate --> needs more quick fixes for warmth. Drinking should be more widespread among southern populations but alcohol abuse should be more common in nothern climates.

[ QUOTE ]
IIRC, alcohol abuse is more widespread in the southern part of Europe than in the northern part.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, I looked it up. It seems that southern Europeans drink more wine per capita than their northern brethren. But I associate wine with mostly moderate drinking on social or family occasions, and less often with alcohol abuse. While the northerners consume per capita more beer than southerners :

<font color="red"> WINE </font> BEER kilos/per year/per capita for 1984-86

W Germany <font color="red">24.9 </font> 195.8
Denmark <font color="red"> 19.2 </font> 127.0
UK <font color="red">10.2 </font>109
Ireland <font color="red"> 3.4 </font> 78.3
Norway <font color="red"> 5.1 </font> 48.2
Sweden <font color="red"> 11.4 </font> 39.5
...
France <font color="red"> 76.5 </font> 38.9
Italy <font color="red">74.4 </font> 21.5
Portugal <font color="red"> 67.7 </font> 37.5
Spain <font color="red">48.5 </font> 56.8
link

But we gotta go beyond mere arithmetic averages. Here's what a 2001 World Health Organisation paper had to say:

"The eight countries with the lowest rates of abstainers are northern European countries (Baltic or Nordic, and Ireland and the United Kingdom). These countries are often regarded as having a “wet” drinking culture – that is, consumption of spirits is rather high, and binge drinking is quite common. The majority of women also drink alcohol, perhaps because they work outside the home. Among the countries with the higher percentages of abstainers are those in southern Europe, mainly wine drinking countries. These countries have a “dry” drinking culture, where drinking wine is an integral part of the diet, but drinking alcohol to intoxication is regarded as socially unacceptable."

link


Mickey Brausch

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

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[ QUOTE ]

It's since they have a low drinking age people are more responsible with alcohol.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are they smarter than us and/or more responsible than us for having a low drinking age? If not, how else do you explain it?

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the question is not served in the best way.
the reason is simple: governments/public/teens, everybody accept that teenager becomes an adult at age of 18. at that time he/she should be responsible for all his acts. this include (and is not limited to):
- voting
- gambling
- drinking alcohol (in several countries that is lower; 15 or 16) + when kid caught drunk that is not a crime of course
- driving licence (18 in most countries, somewhere at lower, but only under supervision)
- hunting licence (18)
- joining army (18)
- lethal weapon permits (18)
- going into jail (18)

IMO those rules are good. it's not that our kids are smarter or more responsible than yours, but when we think it's time for them to become fully responsible for their life/acts.

can't imagine the situation when our goverments would raise an alcohol drinking age (or gambling age) to 21, when our kids are joining army (= getting leathal weapons in control or even going into war) at 18 or when they have 7 years of legal sex experiences already. where do you need more responsibility? that would sound funny here.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

The internet, without which there would be no web, has its genesis in packet switching techology invented by the Rand Corp., and adapted by the DoD (ARPA, the Advanced Research Projects Agency) into a 4 node network called ARPANET designed to maintain computer control of defense resources in the event of a nuclear attack.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

Leonard Kleinrock invented networking so he could be called the inventor of The Internet. Why does Al Gore think he invented The Internet anyway?

John von Neumann invented the personal computer.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
can't imagine the situation when our goverments would raise an alcohol drinking age (or gambling age) to 21, when our kids are joining army (= getting leathal weapons in control or even going into war) at 18 or when they have 7 years of legal sex experiences already. where do you need more responsibility? that would sound funny here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is a high tech thing that an European invented and is used world wide?
The internet

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

The first internet node was established at UCLA in 1969.

Re: Are Europeans smarter/ more responsible than Americans?
 

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Indeed, the web isnt the internet.

My point is the guy prolly thought that when he heard the web was created by an english dude (as you say) he thought it meant the internet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I got confused. I replied to you thinking you were surftheiop (who originally posted the "europeans invented teh intarnet"). I got mixed up because I'm travelling, using slow dialup (so avatars are turned off) and a small screen (I have to scroll the screen over to see the entire post and can't see the usernames).