Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

"I stated when I saw the ad, I was commenting to you about it, that he was either off the medication or he was acting. He is an actor, after all."

Fox made an ad in support of Democratic Senate candidate in MO, the issue is stem cell research. Fox is shaking, as is symptomatic of someone who is taking Parkinson's meds. If he was off his meds, he would be rigid. This is according to Parkinson's specialist.

Although a notorious expert on prescription drugs, Dr. Limbaugh makes what can only be seen as a disgusting personal attack on a courageous man. He is implying that he is faking his symptoms! Didn't these guys learn anything about this stuff with that poor woman in Florida in the coma?

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

Rush v. one of the most well-liked entertainers of the last 30 years. Not a great thinker that Rush.

Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
"I stated when I saw the ad, I was commenting to you about it, that he was either off the medication or he was acting. He is an actor, after all."

Fox made an ad in support of Democratic Senate candidate in MO, the issue is stem cell research. Fox is shaking, as is symptomatic of someone who is taking Parkinson's meds. If he was off his meds, he would be rigid. This is according to Parkinson's specialist.

Although a notorious expert on prescription drugs, Dr. Limbaugh makes what can only be seen as a disgusting personal attack on a courageous man. He is implying that he is faking his symptoms! Didn't these guys learn anything about this stuff with that poor woman in Florida in the coma?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to defend Rush Limbaugh but this post typifies one of the major problems with this forum in that often posts are just talking points for their political positions. I think you're being totally unfair in not presenting the "other side" of this. In the interest of fairness allow me to do so and at least let people make their own judgement with some relevant information. IMO a better title would have been:"Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack." In fact I changed the sub thread title.

Democrats Exploit Michael J. Fox's Illness

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

Why anyone would still listen to Hush Bimbo after selling out the conservative movement over the last 15 or so years is beyond me.

Personal Attack : The man has no shame
 

This is Limbaugh speaking, and pay close attention. This is how a bully ducks and weaves and "apologizes" when he has no more lies to hide behind:

[ QUOTE ]
I stand corrected. I've seen [Michael J. Fox] on Boston Legal. I've seen him on a number of stand-up appearances. I know he's got it; it's pitiable that he has the disease. It is a debilitating disease, and I understand that fully. All I'm saying is I've never seen him the way he appears in this commercial for Claire McCaskill. So I will bigly, hugely admit that I was wrong, and I will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act, especially since people are telling me they have seen him this way on other interviews and in other television appearances.

[/ QUOTE ]

"If I'm wrong" ??

Limbaugh goes on to state that he's got [ QUOTE ]
a plethora of e-mails from people saying Michael J. Fox has admitted in interviews that he goes off his medication for Parkinson's disease when he appears before Congress or other groups as a means of illustrating the ravages of the disease.

[/ QUOTE ]So after he sorta, kinda, not-really apoligizes to Michael J. Fox, he then cowardly, shamelessly insuls Fox again, only now he says that others are calling Fox a liar and a fraud. Link to Limbaugh

Ah, the undying McCarthy tactics.

Mickey Brausch

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"I stated when I saw the ad, I was commenting to you about it, that he was either off the medication or he was acting. He is an actor, after all."

Fox made an ad in support of Democratic Senate candidate in MO, the issue is stem cell research. Fox is shaking, as is symptomatic of someone who is taking Parkinson's meds. If he was off his meds, he would be rigid. This is according to Parkinson's specialist.

Although a notorious expert on prescription drugs, Dr. Limbaugh makes what can only be seen as a disgusting personal attack on a courageous man. He is implying that he is faking his symptoms! Didn't these guys learn anything about this stuff with that poor woman in Florida in the coma?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to defend Rush Limbaugh but this post typifies one of the major problems with this forum in that often posts are just talking points for their political positions. I think you're being totally unfair in not presenting the "other side" of this. In the interest of fairness allow me to do so and at least let people make their own judgement with some relevant information. IMO a better title would have been:"Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack." In fact I changed the sub thread title.

Democrats Exploit Michael J. Fox's Illness

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not buying the "two sides to every argument" argument. You don't accuse a sick person of faking without evidence. Sick people deserve support and sympathy as a matter of common decency. I could say its reckless to attack Fox, you know, a "mistake"(which in itself is quite bad), but forgive me if I think that its an intentional personal attack for politcal reasons. I base this assertion on the fact that my head isn't up my ass.

I read Limbaugh's apology and skimmed the rest of his message. I think that Fox has been active in stem cell reasearch for a long time. This is his right. Sorry if Limbaugh doesn't agree, but that does not mean Fox is faking or he is being used. He states in the ad that stem cell research provides "hope", not a cure. I don't agree with Limbaugh that Fox is being used. Fox is an adult, capable of making decisions for himself. I don't believe that voters are beind duped into believing something like "if I vote for Democrat, Fox is going to live..." I think everyone sees what is going here, frankly.

Re: Personal Attack : The man has no shame
 

Lol the republicans roll out Jesus and a godawful QB in response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nguJQ_dRPXw

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not buying the "two sides to every argument" argument ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Enough said [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not buying the "two sides to every argument" argument ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Enough said [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn right! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Oh, I can't be mad I'm just a big goof. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

adios,

Rush says: "this commercial for Claire McCaskill he's using his illness in a way to mislead voters that there's a cure for Parkinson's disease if only Claire McCaskill gets elected, if only Jim Talent is defeated. "

The thing is I'm not sure this is misleading. Michael J Fox only says the research gives him hope. And considering the track record of embryonic stem cells treating Parkinson's in mice and rats:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/news_and_ev...lls_062002.htm

That hope seems more than justified. I agree that the stem cell debate is used by people that don't know what they are talking about to push their agenda. I also can't comment if this specific treatment in mice requires embyonic stems cells as opposed to the adult variety. However, it isn't a debate that embryonic stem cells are easier to work with. So it would be extremely difficult for me to say Michael J. Fox is in any shape or form out of line here.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
I base this assertion on the fact that my head isn't up my ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gold. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

Point not valid then? Fair enough. If I remember correctly Limbaugh stated somewhere that stem cell research had nothing to do with curing Parkinson's disease. I wondered about this statement and apparently Limbaugh is providing disinformation. I think Limbaugh has been taking a lot of flack for his statements about Michael J. Fox. I assumed that this controversy was more publicised than I apparently thought btw.

Re: Personal Attack : The man has no shame
 

I believe Limbaugh has been getting a lot of flack for his statements about Michael J. Fox. I agree that he seems to be covering his tracks more or less with this diaglog. Apparently many of his fans took offense.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

Here is a recording of Rush calling stem cell cures "nothing but speculation" and "no evidence of any of these claims".

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607200011

As I just showed in my previous link that is patently false. Rush Limbaugh is wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of line here. The burdern of proof is on him to prove adult stem cells are all we need for these rats.

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

Symptoms of Parkinson's are rigidity of muscles but tremors of the limbs, so going of his meds could induce getting these tremors.

People that say that embryonic stem cell research has no promise don't know what they are talking about (and in particular for neuronal adult stem cells do not). Specifically diseases like Parkinson's and Multiple Sclerosis are great candidates for stem cell treatment. Spinal cord injury I think is probably a lot further away if it will ever be able to be cured.

edited to add that I am in no way surprised that Limbaugh would do this. Complain if you want that he is being "used" by the Democrats, a personal attack like this is just crass and besides the point.

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

stem cells don't work [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

I didnt see the ad. Was MJFox petitioning against the government (legalize research) or for the government (steal my money for his own personal benefit)?

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

I don't know. Probably government funding of stem cell research.

I think Fox will let us use the cure if we get sick, he's cool like that. Sorry I got to go, my polio is acting up.

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

Rally around the flag, and let's bring back Yellow Fever and Smallpox!!!

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here is a recording of Rush calling stem cell cures "nothing but speculation" and "no evidence of any of these claims".

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607200011

As I just showed in my previous link that is patently false. Rush Limbaugh is wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of line here. The burdern of proof is on him to prove adult stem cells are all we need for these rats.

[/ QUOTE ]

To Rush, the solution to everything is painkillers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] - No further medical research needed.

rb

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know. Probably government funding of stem cell research.

I think Fox will let us use the cure if we get sick, he's cool like that. Sorry I got to go, my polio is acting up.

[/ QUOTE ]


hahahahahah sick burn

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a recording of Rush calling stem cell cures "nothing but speculation" and "no evidence of any of these claims".

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607200011

As I just showed in my previous link that is patently false. Rush Limbaugh is wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of line here. The burdern of proof is on him to prove adult stem cells are all we need for these rats.

[/ QUOTE ]

To Rush, the solution to everything is painkillers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] - No further medical research needed.

rb

[/ QUOTE ]

Limbaugh is an idiot, but attacking him in this fashion is only going to divert attention from the sick thing he did here.

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

[ QUOTE ]
stem cells don't work [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Just so people aren't misled these were fetal neural stem cells and not embryonic. The fetal-derived cells bypasses the ethical arguments. So this can't be used to attack people who are against embryonic stem cells.

However, it seems pretty clear to me that this can be used to debunk Limbaugh.

EDIT:

Man I just read the Fumento article limbaugh sourced. These guys are hacks. Fumento references a article in science he accuses of fraud. At the same time he refuses to name the title, date, page, pretty much anything other than it had "three ESC advocates" as authors. Well he goes on to greatly misrepresent the article in science.

Gee, I wonder why he didn't source the article:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../313/5786/439b

It's not an advocate of ESC's but a critique of ASC statistics put out by right wing think tanks.

It's sad these guys are key players.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Rush says: "this commercial for Claire McCaskill he's using his illness in a way to mislead voters that there's a cure for Parkinson's disease if only Claire McCaskill gets elected, if only Jim Talent is defeated."
<font color="white"> . </font>
The thing is I'm not sure this is misleading. Michael J Fox only says the research gives him hope.

[/ QUOTE ]That's precisely right, and is what Adios should have focused on. Most of Limbaugh's text is standard political posturing but this is an important point, which Limbaugh distorts and then builds an argument on it. Michael J. Fox only wants (and supports) reasonable chances, not certainty. If he claimed certainty, he should have been called on it.

People who have began fights for various causes, e.g. business causes, with poor odds, will understand.

Mickey Brausch

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

What did I focus on? I thought I focused on what I perceived as a one sided post by anatta and how I thought he could have made a more balanced post that would actually bring about discussion. Apparently posting a link to Limbaugh's statments accomplished that.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is a recording of Rush calling stem cell cures "nothing but speculation" and "no evidence of any of these claims".

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607200011

As I just showed in my previous link that is patently false. Rush Limbaugh is wayyyyyyyyyyyy out of line here. The burdern of proof is on him to prove adult stem cells are all we need for these rats.

[/ QUOTE ]

To Rush, the solution to everything is painkillers [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] - No further medical research needed.

rb

[/ QUOTE ]

Limbaugh is an idiot, but attacking him in this fashion is only going to divert attention from the sick thing he did here.

[/ QUOTE ]

it uses humor to make a point - Rush thinks of nothing but himself and what benefits him and attacking anyone with any credibility for the Democrats is part of that.

I coulda smelled his response a mile away - (but I'd probably smell him from two miles away) - see?

he is a troll for talk radio and deserves the same lack of respect he gives those who are really working to try to fix things

but hey, he brings in advertising revenue. - [censored] that dickwad. He's not even on the number one talk station in this market anymore - - LOL -

rb

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Rush says: "this commercial for Claire McCaskill he's using his illness in a way to mislead voters that there's a cure for Parkinson's disease if only Claire McCaskill gets elected, if only Jim Talent is defeated."
<font color="white"> . </font>
The thing is I'm not sure this is misleading. Michael J Fox only says the research gives him hope.

[/ QUOTE ]That's precisely right, and is what Adios should have focused on. Most of Limbaugh's text is standard political posturing but this is an important point, which Limbaugh distorts and then builds an argument on it. Michael J. Fox only wants (and supports) reasonable chances, not certainty. If he claimed certainty, he should have been called on it.

Mickey Brausch

[/ QUOTE ]

No one really claims certainity when it comes to medical cures, but it is always a long long journey, and the more time we waste before starting, the more suffering that occurs until we get something figured out.

If Rush thought about anything other then advertising dollars and keeping his audience rabid, he'd know that -

rb

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

Im not a huge Rush fan either, but AS SOON as I saw the ad, i felt Fox may have been off his meds. He has been on TV and in public many times recently, and I have NEVER seen him shake that badly.

As to the stem cell thing, I am not talking about that. Only pointing out that I too saw the same thing.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Im not a huge Rush fan either, but AS SOON as I saw the ad, i felt Fox may have been off his meds. He has been on TV and in public many times recently, and I have NEVER seen him shake that badly.

As to the stem cell thing, I am not talking about that. Only pointing out that I too saw the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't he admit in his book he goes off meds for drama?

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

From what I am learning, its the meds that cause the shaking. If you are off the meds you are stiff and unable to talk.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im not a huge Rush fan either, but AS SOON as I saw the ad, i felt Fox may have been off his meds. He has been on TV and in public many times recently, and I have NEVER seen him shake that badly.

As to the stem cell thing, I am not talking about that. Only pointing out that I too saw the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't he admit in his book he goes off meds for drama?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes he did. From the hardcover edition (I used the search function on Amazon.com), pg 247:

"I had made a deliberate choice to appear before the subcommittee without medication. It seemed to me that this occasion demanded that my testimony about the effects of the disease, and the urgency as a community were feeling, be seen as well as heard. For people who had never observed me in this kind of shape, the transformation must have been startling."

He then follows that statement with a description of his physical actions that he saw while he watched the broadcast on C-SPAN.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
From what I am learning, its the meds that cause the shaking. If you are off the meds you are stiff and unable to talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again I believe this is incorrect. Where did you learn this?

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

I don't know for sure. This is a doctor, but he gets money from Fox's foundation:


"What you are seeing on the video is side effects of the medication. He has to take that medication to sit there and talk to you like that. ... He's not over-dramatizing. ... [Limbaugh] is revealing his ignorance of Parkinson's disease, because people with Parkinson's don't look like that at all when they're not taking their medication. They look stiff, and frozen, and don't move at all. ... People with Parkinson's, when they've had the disease for awhile, are in this bind, where if they don't take any medication, they can be stiff and hardly able to talk. And if they do take their medication, so they can talk, they get all of this movement, like what you see in the ad."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=51219

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

Anatta,

If you read the excerpt that I posted, Fox follows his state
ment with a description of the movements he was making while he was off his meds. It doesnt quite square with what you are saying.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
From what I am learning, its the meds that cause the shaking. If you are off the meds you are stiff and unable to talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was Fox diplaying the "shaking" behavior when he was off his meds testifying to Congress? It's well documented that Fox has written that he has purposly gone of his meds when testifying.

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

[ QUOTE ]
I didnt see the ad. Was MJFox petitioning against the government (legalize research) or for the government (steal my money for his own personal benefit)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Michael Fox add

Re: Limbaugh attacks Michael J. Fox
 

IMO limbaugh is the one of the most pathetic individuals to exist. I believe he is like most republicans. Loud mouthed, quick to point a finger, not good at rational thought

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anatta,

If you read the excerpt that I posted, Fox follows his state
ment with a description of the movements he was making while he was off his meds. It doesnt quite square with what you are saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From what I am learning, its the meds that cause the shaking. If you are off the meds you are stiff and unable to talk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was Fox diplaying the "shaking" behavior when he was off his meds testifying to Congress? It's well documented that Fox has written that he has purposly gone of his meds when testifying.

[/ QUOTE ]

I quoted a doctor who is supposedly a Parkinson's expert. What he says about the meds and Parkinson's is pretty straightforward. So we appear to have a contradiction between this doctor and Fox's statements.

I am not sure about any of this. Its possible that Fox goes off the meds in a sacrifice of some auditory proficiency, and in return he doesn't shake as much. This would jibe with his statement regarding wanting to see the true effects of Parkinson's, which, evidently isn't this shaking behaviour, but rather stiffness and inability to talk.

But as you point out, he describes his shaking, and implys its related to the being off the meds. Maybe the actor is being vain, he goes off the meds to lessen the shaking, but wants us to think its the reason he is shaking. Is there a doctor in the house?

And since Fox is quoted as saying he goes off the meds, I can see why Rush made his quote. Perhaps Rush is merely negligent here.

Re: Limbaugh: Valid Point Made or Personal Attack
 

Heh, I just talked to somebody that has Parkinson's and is against embryonic research. He thinks Fox was out of line and his commercial was likely to confuse those that don't know the difference between ASC and ESC. I have to agree. So I change my verdict to Fox was a little out of line but Limbaugh was way out of line.

Re: Personal Attack : The man has no shame
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lol the republicans roll out Jesus and a godawful QB in response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nguJQ_dRPXw

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that must have cost at least $35 to make...