a coach for poker ???
 

why would anybody need a coach. If you think there are better players than you are all you need to do is watch them. Online its even more easy. Just datamine and analyze their play. Think about your game and learn about your mistakes. No need for a coach. Why would anybody teach you all the secrets for some lousy bucks if they can make so much playing themselves ?? The truth is that they can't make enough anymore (maybe they were winners once) and instead are looking for some stupid folks to make up for it. Don't let them fool you and take your money !!!!!!!

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

Personally, I know there are way better players out there than myself. The fact that one can recognize that says something.

As for my coach(Joe Tall)I have played with him live several times and I can attest to his poker skills adn knowledge as can a number of others I have chatted with. That goes for his cohorts as well.

Maybe you DC guys should put up some testimonials here(if allowed) so people can see for themselves.

PS. I guess I have been fooled to the tune of winning more consistently after I hooked up with my coach. Hmmmmm lets see, spend x and turn it into xxxx???

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

joe tall his answer would be tiger woods has a coach, michael jordan had a coach etc

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

coaches coach b/c guaranteed money is always better

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
joe tall his answer would be tiger woods has a coach, michael jordan had a coach etc

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes perfectly sense. The coach of Tiger Woods might see something Tiger could do better. However ; he couldn't do it himself . Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense. If the coach could do it he would just go ahead and win a lot of golf-tournaments and make millions instead of coaching for a couple grand.

I believe that a good player can teach a bad player in poker. However, it does not make any sense at all. Why would you want to do that when you can make more playing yourself.
Never met a poker player who also is mother Theresa.

And it even makes less sense for the bad player ; that's because all info you need to become a good player is already available for free. (thx for the internet) All you need to do is to follow the strategy discussion on one of the many websites. Just use your brain. It will make you a better player if you figure things out by yourself.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe that a good player can teach a bad player in poker. However, it does not make any sense at all. Why would you want to do that when you can make more playing yourself.
Never met a poker player who also is mother Theresa.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mother Theresa was actually a pretty good RAZZ-player.

And your post is fairly stupid. Seems like you just want to provoke. It's sad that the pro's need to waste their time answering trash like this.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

Did you go to Grade School? High School? College?

Or just stay home and read all the books?

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did you go to Grade School? High School? College?

Or just stay home and read all the books?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you did read some books to get the idea. And i believe it was a good idea back then. 10 Years ago it wasn't so easy to get any good info for free. But i doubt that you learned to play well in a school.(only if you consider a poker room to be school) Most people here can teach people how to play poker (1-2 hours should do). But a good player you must become yourself.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you go to Grade School? High School? College?

Or just stay home and read all the books?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you did read some books to get the idea. And i believe it was a good idea back then. 10 Years ago it wasn't so easy to get any good info for free. But i doubt that you learned to play well in a school.(only if you consider a poker room to be school) Most people here can teach people how to play poker (1-2 hours should do). But a good player you must become yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I was trying to say was that you had teachers in school that helped you learn what was in the books, showed you how to apply them. What a coach can do is give you the tools to improve your own game, give you guidance on how to succeed, just like your teachers.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

JOE T, who is and was your coach anyways? Some slouch probably right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
JOE T, who is and was your coach anyways? Some slouch probably right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some old hippie guy from the Bay Area, I've heard. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
JOE T, who is and was your coach anyways? Some slouch probably right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

I very much doubt that he or one of the other coaches here ever hired someone to teach them. They had many coaches for free. They came here to 2+2 to discuss poker. They maybe hang out together to discuss poker. And that's the way to go if you are serious about becoming a very good player. After one gets a basic understanding of poker all you need is to find people to discuss with you ; and there are many players out there willing to without that you have to pay them. Just check the strategy forums. And asking more than one player is better anyway. Getting more than one opinion will make you think more about the game. You will try to figure out who might be right and who is wrong. Sometimes there is more than 1 way to play a hand. Which of those ways fits your style better?? Read posts about other aspects of the game. (there are so many good posts..just dig in the archives ) Just this deep thinking will make you a better player. Asking a coach how to play or why he played a hand in some way will not help you much. You should try and find your own style and not becoming a clone of Joe Tall or whoever.

Maybe it's not wanted to discuss stuff like this in a paid for forum. Mods feel free to transfer to a general strategy forum.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
JOE T, who is and was your coach anyways? Some slouch probably right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's not wanted to discuss stuff like this in a paid for forum. Mods feel free to transfer to a general strategy forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

No this is perfectly fine discussion and we welcome all posters to join.

[ QUOTE ]
I very much doubt that he or one of the other coaches here ever hired someone to teach them

[/ QUOTE ]

I have received a lot of advice from the great players I surround myself with but I have a poker coach. No other than Tommy Angelo and have been working with him for over 3 years.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

No this is perfectly fine discussion and we welcome all posters to join.------------------

Appreciate it and admit i thought you would rather be pissed and be happy to get rid of it.

I have received a lot of advice from the great players I surround myself with but I have a poker coach. No other than Tommy Angelo and have been working with him for over 3 years.--------------------------------

That's confusing. You want to coach people but you need a coach yourself ?
However, i have some serious question:
a.) What info you can give to your student that they can't have for free (except from you of course) ?
b.) If you are so good that you can be a coach: why not make more $$ at the tables instead of the peanuts you can make in the time coaching ?
c.) Where do you guys play live ? ( no! not coming there to play you. Just like to know)

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

You want to coach people but you need a coach yourself ?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got this backwards: I do coach people in need and want to a coach for myself.

[ QUOTE ]

a.) What info you can give to your student that they can't have for free (except from you of course) ?


[/ QUOTE ]

I custom build my programs after each student gets interviewed by me. Therefore every student gets his own, unique learning experinece.

[ QUOTE ]

b.) If you are so good that you can be a coach: why not make more $$ at the tables instead of the peanuts you can make in the time coaching ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I charge $250/hr and can't keep up with demand for coaching. There aren't many jobs our there that can guarntee that rate.

[ QUOTE ]

c.) Where do you guys play live ? ( no! not coming there to play you. Just like to know)

[/ QUOTE ]

I live in Southern California, I play in the area card rooms but hand-total-wise I play more online.

I enjoy coaching. It keeps me on top of my game as I practice what I preach. It keeps balance in my poker life and is very satisfying to see a student do well.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

I am a professional musician and I can add that as a teacher you also learn(if you are good)when you teach.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
why would anybody need a coach.

[/ QUOTE ]

reason 1/many

i have met players who have played more hands than, and are better/more successful than me. i am a confident, winning live player, but humble enough to realize that i could benefit with help from a more experienced player.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]


I charge $250/hr and can't keep up with demand for coaching. There aren't many jobs our there that can guarntee that rate.

I enjoy coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree to this point. Very enjoyable !
I'm surprised and shocked how many stupid people are out there.Now i' m done with this thread. To busy now to become a coach.
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I charge $250/hr and can't keep up with demand for coaching. There aren't many jobs our there that can guarntee that rate.

I enjoy coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree to this point. Very enjoyable !
I'm surprised and shocked how many stupid people are out there.Now i' m done with this thread. To busy now to become a coach.
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

My students have turned the $250 investment into thousands. I guess you weren't referring to them.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]


My students have turned the $250 investment into thousands. I guess you weren't referring to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

First of all: if one of your students does win some $$ it does not mean he wouldn't have won that without you. And i doubt that your students just get one hour. (you are to smart to let them get away so cheap)

Let me take a wild guess here. An average of 8 hours per student ?? Let's assume you coach so good that after 8 sessions he can win 0.3 BB more per hour than before. Now we have to subtract 0.2 BB that he could make more if he instead of getting coaching from you would have done something himself and get advice from what you call "good players surrounding you" That gives him 0.1 BB that he gets out of your coaching.( i believe that numbers to be very generous calculated to your side )( if your student was a beginner or loser at the game the number could go up but i assume most of your students do win already) What limits does your students play. Let's say 10-20(most will probably play lower) That would be $ 2 per hour value. So , that student has to play at least 1000 hours before he makes any money from your coaching. All that assumes that any increase of win rate really comes from your coaching. If anyone now takes away 20 hours from the 1000 hours of playing time and instead invest that time into some research here and studying the game by himself and talk even more to other winning players (that does not charge) anyone would make up any increase of win rate gained from your coaching. And again: all that assumes that your coaching is better than studying the game without a coach.

This discussion leads to nothing. I just wanted to point out what i think about people that asks $$$ for talking poker with them. That should be all clear by now. Case closed.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

If I woudnt have turned to JT to coach me I would have been prolly broke or quit poker all together and now I am actually winning again and liking my life allot more, hows that for your calculation pokerhund

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

I'll start off by saying I've NEVER been coached, but I might consider it one day.

PokerHund, have you ever opened your mind to the possibility that everyone is different? Perhaps what works for you doesn't work for everyone else, and vice versa? That maybe coaching is VERY worthwhile for some people, even if it isn't for you? Your experiences != everyone else's.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

First of all: if one of your students does win some $$ it does not mean he wouldn't have won that without you. And i doubt that your students just get one hour. (you are to smart to let them get away so cheap)

[/ QUOTE ]

Most do my 2hr package and then about 65% of them do at least one follow up, so say 2.7 hours avg. Most play 2/4 online or around 4/8 live with the goal to start moving up.

I teach a lot of things that aren't talked about on the forum or are in any books. I give my students tools, custom built to their games, to improve.

Good luck in your search to improve.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

PokerHund, you remind me of a fellow who would say, "that's my opinion and it ought to be yours, too." Why are you wasting your time, and ours? It's obvious that you're more interested in trolling than learning.

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]

Most do my 2hr package and then about 65% of them do at least one follow up, so say 2.7 hours avg. Most play 2/4 online or around 4/8 live with the goal to start moving up.

I teach a lot of things that aren't talked about on the forum or are in any books. I give my students tools, custom built to their games, to improve.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure this is a great package, but I still prefer to datamine for 175 years...

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
PokerHund, you remind me of a fellow who would say, "that's my opinion and it ought to be yours, too." Why are you wasting your time, and ours? It's obvious that you're more interested in trolling than learning.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a ridiculous response. And you never realy read what i wrote. I have no problem with coaching. If i have a problem at all than it is paying for a coach! I said what i think ; that's all. If you disagree with my opinion it's fine. If you think i waste your time why you read my post ? And btw i am very interested in learning and i learn something everyday .

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

datamine all you want, i guess the pga tour pros i know are wasting money by getting hands on teaching and not watching vidoes..ill mention this to david toms when i see him next....ridiculous post

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

[ QUOTE ]
datamine all you want, i guess the pga tour pros i know are wasting money by getting hands on teaching and not watching vidoes..ill mention this to david toms when i see him next....ridiculous post

[/ QUOTE ]

Another joker. How funny. PGA pros ?? This coaches here ask $250 for one hour from people that play 2-4 limit poker. You are all sick. That's for sure. If all those pros need coaches why not coach them ? And who the [censored] is David Toms ?

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

pokerhund, you are an idiot.....

Re: a coach for poker ???
 

Ok everyone, I'm making a mod decision in the only forum I have power in [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Locking this thread, I think its run its course and I don't want to see it get completely out of hand. PokerHund has made his points, unpopular as they are, and everyone is going to have to agree to disagree.

-DeathDonkey