Teach me how to play KK
 

OK, live game last night at the ol' Foxwoods 1-2 NL game.

I'm going to post 2 hands in which our hero gets dealt the pretty K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and either makes horrendous plays or heroic Daniel Negraneu type reads. Not sure which is which.

Here's the first one:

Hand 1: earlier in the night, the villain in MP has a nice stack of close to 1000$, I have roughly 300$.

I raise to 15$ in EP with KK, villain deliberates and makes it 75 dollars. That's 60 more to me.

He has been playing verrrry LAG up to this point, but I hadn't seen a PF raise of this magnitude yet.

What to do?

Hero deliberates and calls 60 dollars.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero (???) checks.

Villain bets all in for hero's remaining 225.

Hero ????

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

this is an easy call for me,

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

why are you checking this flop other than to get it all in? easy call

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

i woulda shoved pre...but i snap call the flop.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

yep, auto call. it's imaginable that villain would push it in with a worse hand in a $150 pot, hoping to knock you off a pair < QQ. Besides, you're playing live- villain must be an idiot.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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i woulda shoved pre...but i snap call the flop.

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Spot on IMO.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

What else can villain play this way besides AA, KK (statistically unlikely), or QQ (unlikely based on flop play)?

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
What else can villain play this way besides AA, KK (statistically unlikely), or QQ (unlikely based on flop play)?



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JJ 1010 AQ, You said villain ws laggy

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i woulda shoved pre...but i snap call the flop.

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Spot on IMO.

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nice to know i can play KK! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

I get the impression from certain posts I have read that a good LAG player wont easily make a pot so big without a hand and/or atleast a good read on YOU, to back it up. Hes got a large stack atleast hinting hes not bad, so why is this such an immediate call?

BTW this is not a challenge its 100% a question. I don't yet have a real opinion.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

As played call all day long.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

Call if you like money.

You've underrepresented your hand here significantly.

He'll show 10/10, J/J, A/K or A/Q, or far worse, often enough to make this an easy snap call.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

[ QUOTE ]
I get the impression from certain posts I have read that a good LAG player wont easily make a pot so big without a hand and/or atleast a good read on YOU, to back it up. Hes got a large stack atleast hinting hes not bad, so why is this such an immediate call?

BTW this is not a challenge its 100% a question. I don't yet have a real opinion.

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because we beat a ton of hands that are in his range making it profitable in the long run imo to call this.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

Would the abnormal sized PFR be an indicator of anything?

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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Would the abnormal sized PFR be an indicator of anything?

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not really, it's live and he has a monster stack.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

Push pre, call flop. I've never played foxwoods 1/2 but i imagine the players are incredibly bad, such that they will call a pf push with lots of [censored], and such that calling the flop push is super clear.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

i really dont know how you can fold here, if you do , your playing to high and are scared

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

Villain in this hand is a LAG, but he's not an idiot.

I have been playing relatively tight up to this point in the game, so a raise to 15 in EP is indicating a real hand - he certainly knows this.

But I guess my decision was more based on the following: villain has 3-bet PF a couple times already, but in all cases the raise was much smaller - usually just a min-raise or a pop to ~40. I had seen him 3-bet PF OOP and then fold to a 4-bet all-in. Pretty bad play, IMO, as he claimed to have QJs there.

But in this spot, his 3-bet was significantly higher than before - indicating to me that he's be happy to get it in here. It felt like AA, KK, QQ, or AK at the minimum - we can throw in JJ as well to be fair - I was 50/50 about pushing it in PF but decided to call and reevaluate on the flop.

The flop of Q44 was interesting - I was either way behind his AA/QQ here or way ahead of his AK/JJ. He quickly went all-in, with a lot of confidence - and decided to even pick up his hand and flash it to the rest of the table (I was on his immediate right). To me, this represented huge strength- likely AA, b/c I can't see why he would blow me off any hand if he had flopped the boat. I thought for a few minutes, still knowing that my hand could have very possibly been good - and I actually heard one of the players at the far side of the table say 'he's got to be good unless [i] am holding pocket queens' to his neighbor.

Obviously, this sealed the deal, I folded, asked if he'd show, then flipped up the KK (to ooh's and aah's of the table).

Obviously I didn't divulge all of this in the original post - I wanted to show some of the merits of playing live [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

fwiw i turned the 200 dollar freeroll i had left into just over 600 [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

I fold, but felt most flops

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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and I actually heard one of the players at the far side of the table say 'he's got to be good unless am holding pocket queens' to his neighbor.

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what?

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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I was 50/50 about pushing it in PF but decided to call and reevaluate on the flop.


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Shoving preflop is always your best option here given your reads.

As played, you call to reevaluate the flop - and get a dream flop. What more do you want? You've got the overpair which is perfect. The only reason you'd check the flop is if you're going to check/push. It's time to get money in the pot pronto.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

Should have been:

I actually heard one of the players at the far side of the table say 'he (villain) has got to be ahead unless he (hero) is holding pocket queens' to his neighbor.

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

[quoteAs played, you call to reevaluate the flop - and get a dream flop.

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how the hell is this a dream flop considering the read is that villain has a big hand preflop????

Re: Teach me how to play KK
 

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[quoteAs played, you call to reevaluate the flop - and get a dream flop.

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how the hell is this a dream flop considering the read is that villain has a big hand preflop????

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We already know the villain has a big hand - we don't need to a see a flop to determine that. By calling the 3bet preflop the hero has decided his hand is playable against the villains range. The flop brings 3 undercards, thus his KK becomes even more playable than it was preflop.

In other words, what is the hero hoping for? A-A-X so he can fold??

He decides to play the hand and gets a flop which puts him in great position. Thus, dream flop.